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Marvin
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In general, any nitrate and aluminium combination needs a stabiliser. Usually boric acid I think. Nitrate can be reduced to ammonia, and this
attacks the aluminium.
Magnesium isn't involved in a runaway reaction I know (it's alkaline stable), but it's so reactive anyway I think you need to coat it just to keep it
fresh.
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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water mix
Exist ( in some patent ) mixture NH4 NO3 + Al + water + guar gum + microballoons. It is watergel plastic explosive. Requiring booster, of course. And
working only in bigger diameter, 70 mm and +. It is stabile with any stabilisator. Dr.
[Edited on 28-7-2016 by Laboratory of Liptakov]
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nitro-genes
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https://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured/the-mines-at-messi...
Apparently, ammonal is stable enough to survive almost 40 years of storage, presumably under pretty humid conditions. Don't know if stabilizers were
already added during this time. The ammonium ion is weakly acidic, acting as a buffer and perhaps partial reduction products of the nitrate produced
immediately react with the excess ammonium under these conditions to produce nitrogen gas, preventing an increase in alkalinity as with other
nitrate salts.
[Edited on 28-7-2016 by nitro-genes]
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Avoid at all costs moisture and chlorides!
I have seen Al foil dissolved in saturated NH4NO3 solution (without chlorides) in less than a week at ambiant T° and generating Al2O3, Al(OH)3,
Al(OH)O with H2 gas (glass bottle had the cap curved by the pressure and with cracks into it...the gas had escaped.
In the presence of chlorides, NH4NO3 do release a little NH4Cl what is diluted HCl in disguise (NH4Cl <--> NH3 + HCl)...with water you get much
faster Al dissolution/corrosion.
See catalytic effect of HCl onto Al...
3 HCl + Al -H2O-> AlCl3 + 3/2 H2(g) + heat
AlCl3 + 3 H2O <--==> Al(OH)3 + 3 HCl + heat
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Bert
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MineMan
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I have had a mixture of moist AN and Mg powder ignite in a garage garbage can...
This happened when I threw a damp paper towel on top of a few grams of the mixture!
Also a question for the pros...
In commercial blasting caps is the pressed, or just placed on top of the secondary?
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NeonPulse
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The cap should be in the charge in direct contact with the explosive or booster.
I have heard of zinc and AN catching fire but not Mg. how fine was the powdered metal?
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MineMan
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Very fine powder, a few microns....
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Lotilko
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Hey folks, forgive my ignorance, but I was wondering if it was possible to condense glyoxal with nitroguanidine to produce a compound structurally
similar to glycoluril. Could it be reacted a nitric acid/acetic anhydride mixture to make a nitroamine explosive?
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dangerous amateur
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Yes, the messines mines! I had them in mind too.
The must have been soaking wet after a few years underground. Didnt they even had groundwater troubles there, requiring pumps to keep the tunnels from
drowning?
On the other hand, in this charge size AN does not need any sensitizer, it can detonate on its own.
I have read those patents Dr. Liptakov mentions too. And they do not mention any storage time problems.
I mean, I wonder if this whole thing is even practically viable. Also if one keeps in mind that in order to dissolve so much AN with only 20% water
content, it has to be warm when you mix it, what i assume to be even more critical.
| Quote: |
he ammonium ion is weakly acidic, acting as a buffer and perhaps partial reduction products of the nitrate produced immediately react with the excess
ammonium under these conditions to produce nitrogen gas, preventing an increase in alkalinity as with other nitrate salts. |
I wonder if this is the reason for the aluminium to survive.
Ammonals seem to be some exeption...
[Edited on 30-7-2016 by dangerous amateur]
[Edited on 30-7-2016 by dangerous amateur]
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nitro-genes
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It is interesting what was the exact composition of the explosives used in the messines mines, if it was pure AN and Al power or contained additional
NC as binder. A lightning strike would be like the mother of all EBW's, so even if Al2O3 diluted AN was left, it would probably still have detonated
anyway. With additional organic compononets present from NC, it surely would. 
Wouldn't have thought AN was acidic enough to eat through Al foil in a week, never stored compositions for more than 2 days, so how about tannerite?
What is the shelf life when mixed? Does it say anything about storage conditions, humidity or moisture?
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James Ikanov
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High Performance PLX derivative
I've recently been pondering this mixture very often, but seem to lack the ability to properly order the components to test it. Budget and time
constraints prevent me from even attempting this without very serious efforts on my part, so I figured I should ask to see if someone else had already
tried it.
If I understand correctly, PLX relies on the sensitizing of nitro-methane by use of an amine group. A poster on another forum I use suggested that
someone might make a very high performance explosive by dissolving an excess of picric acid into nitromethane. However, this would not sensitize the
nitromethane, so the only real benefit is density. They also considered hexamine as a sensitizer.
What I was wondering, however, was if it would be feasible to dissolve a nitrosamine (specifically what is often referred to as R-Salt) into
nitromethane to get the double whammy of activating it into PLX and dissolving a frankly more potent explosive into it in large amounts inside roughly
the same volume.
I've looked the best I can and can't find any info on it's solubility in nitro methane at all.
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Vincent Van Gogh
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NeonPulse
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I have tried to dissolve Hexamine into nitromethane and it just did not dissolve. I know that the piccatinny arsenal had released a PDF on the
detonations of NM in pipes and they quote various sensitisers along with Hexamine- I don't know how they did this though.And there is a patent for the
picric acid/ NM mixture and it is a 50/50 mixture I remember. I will chase these up and post the refs shortly. In my experience though high
concentration nitric acid in a 30% ratio to the NM makes one hell of a competitor to The standard PLX with ethylenediamine. It is quite sensitive too.
I'm sure we have all seen those CIA black books and in one there is a suggestion that aqueous household ammonia will sensitise NM. I call BS on this
on account of the water content but there is no reason why a stronger concentration won't work say 35% but I have wondered if a carefully worked out
amount of a dry ammonia gas passed into the NM will work as a sensitiser with zero water content. I don't know of anybody who has tried this before.
I'm sure i got these PDF's off of a thread here somewhere but the wealth of information here is so vast and spread out its hard to know where to point
you in the right direction but anyway here they are.
[Edited on 6-8-2016 by NeonPulse]
Attachment: ADA276962.pdf (1.1MB)
This file has been downloaded 494 times
Attachment: US5140908 nitromethane and picric acid liquid explosive.pdf (159kB)
This file has been downloaded 369 times
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PHILOU Zrealone
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The sensitization of nitromethane (NM) requires the presence of a stongly basic compound to induce the aci-nitro form of nitromethane.
CH3-NO2 <---> CH2=N(O)-OH -base-> CH2=N(O)-O(-) + H(+)
Mineral bases like NaOH, LiOH, KOH are requested with traces of water or alcohol.
Other bases works aswel like NH3, CH3-NH2, (CH3)2NH, (CH3)3N and provide also bubbles for sensitization...traces of water may help deprotonation of
the NM.
One may consider also N2H4 and (CH3)4N(+)OH(-).
Other organic bases ... ideally strong --> primary, secondary or tertiary alcanic/alkylic amines or polyamines such as ethylenediamine (EDA),
diethylenetriamine, triethylenetetramine, ethanolamine, triethanolamine, ...
Hexamine (hexamethylenetetramine) is possible but less strong a base...so less potent sensitizer.
For the same reason aniline (aminobenzene) will be less efficient than cyclohexanamine but stil better than diphenylamine... while triphenylamine
should be completely useless for the sensitization purpose.
If you understand this, then you immediately understand that nitrosamines or nitramines are not sensitizers following the same process because R2N-N=O
and R2N-NO2 are neutral while R-NH-NO2 is acidic...so no aci-nitro form of nitromethane will be favourized; maybe those compounds will sensitize the
explosion but then by another way ... like a booster would do.
If you want to play with sensitization and increasing the power, I would suggest organic amine perchlorate salts many perfoem better than RDX, display
a high density and already a good shock sensitivity...with an extra dose of free amine to sensitize the NM. For example EDA diperchlorate or hydrazine
perchlorate with a solution of NM and EDA or hydrazine to flow between the crystals and acheive the best density packing...the liquid filling the air
voids between the crystals.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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kratomiter
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Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  | Exist ( in some patent ) mixture NH4 NO3 + Al + water + guar gum + microballoons. It is watergel plastic explosive. Requiring booster, of course. And
working only in bigger diameter, 70 mm and +. It is stabile with any stabilisator. Dr.
[Edited on 28-7-2016 by Laboratory of Liptakov] |
I'm going to try something similar, with an hydrosoluble fuel (like urea or hexamine) instead of Al. When enough water is removed, you get a hard and
castable explosive.
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MineMan
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| Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter | | Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov | Exist ( in some patent ) mixture NH4 NO3 + Al + water + guar gum + microballoons. It is watergel plastic explosive. Requiring booster, of course. And
working only in bigger diameter, 70 mm and +. It is stabile with any stabilisator. Dr.
[Edited on 28-7-2016 by Laboratory of Liptakov] |
I'm going to try something similar, with an hydrosoluble fuel (like urea or hexamine) instead of Al. When enough water is removed, you get a hard and
castable explosive. |
Ok, but please report back to us...on how this works, I would keep the Al though...
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kratomiter
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| Quote: Originally posted by MineMan | | Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter | | Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov | Exist ( in some patent ) mixture NH4 NO3 + Al + water + guar gum + microballoons. It is watergel plastic explosive. Requiring booster, of course. And
working only in bigger diameter, 70 mm and +. It is stabile with any stabilisator. Dr.
[Edited on 28-7-2016 by Laboratory of Liptakov] |
I'm going to try something similar, with an hydrosoluble fuel (like urea or hexamine) instead of Al. When enough water is removed, you get a hard and
castable explosive. |
Ok, but please report back to us...on how this works, I would keep the Al though... |
Sadly I only got Magnalium, not pure Al. And Magnesium + water + oxidiser is a bad mix.
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Bert
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Can anyone point to a published velocity of detonation figure for a 70:1 nitromethane:hexamine solution as described here...
http://www.google.com/patents/US9175933
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Isaacdude
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HMTD help
Hi, would laundry detergent (Vanish) with hydrogen peroxide in it work for making HMTD? It says 5-15% hydrogen peroxide on the label, but I tried to
make HMTD with HCl, and even after 48 hours no crystals formed. Does the detergent have something that prevents HMTD formation? Or should I use citric
acid?
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Maybe take a look into the related patents...I couldn't download the pdf from your link so I went to the FPO website...
US9175933 via Free Patents Online
The related patents are a little below into the link.
The VOD should be essentially that of NM --> 6200-6400 m/s
[Edited on 11-8-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Well, was be tested before month. Many variants, temperatures, ratios, purification etc. Not worked it. Detergent is reactive with acid, because he is
Ph as NH4. And neutralize an acid. It is together very dirty impossible reaction. Dr.
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite (2024)
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Lotilko
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I would abandon organic peroxides if I were you, I know it might seem as the best choice for an amateur, but please. A friend of mine had an accident
where 30 grams of HMTD and about 200 mililiters of MEKP went off. Needless to say, he was lucky that he wasn't near. He said that the closet exploded
with great violence and he could feel the shock wave 60 meters away. Try mercury fluminate if you are looking for a simple primary. Then move onto
more complex ones.
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Bert
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10-8-2016 at 14:47 |
Tricka90
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Detonating the undetonable ANFO
Did anyone manage to detonate ANFO?
I tried detonating 100 grams confined ANFO with a homemade cap filled with over one gram of Silver Acetylide but it didn't detonate. Should I try with
two grams Silver Acetylide or more? Or I should just use a boost charge in the detonator cap such as Picric Acid or any other easier to detonate
secondary?
Thanks to everyone will give me a suggestion.
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hissingnoise
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Most people would just google it ─ it cost me 10 seconds and 2 clicks?
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Bert
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14-8-2016 at 05:18 |
MineMan
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ANFO is cap sensitive when it is crushed, is yours? Also did you use 6% diesel? Add 2%-5% Al powder... that will help. Unfortunately SADS has a low
VOD...
One gram of SADS, what are your yields, that would cost me about 2 grams of silver nitrate?
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Tricka90
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Picric Acid Sensitivity
I'm currently studying picric acid synthesis and properties. Unfortunately there's not much information available online, expecially about its
sensitivity. Do you have any direct experience with picric acid that you would like to share? Or can you suggest any informative resource (books,
files, videos etc) which covers the proper and safe handling of picric acid and maybe some sensitivity test? I know it to be one of the safest
secondary (excluding ammonium nitrate based explosives) but I'm trying to figure out how much safe it really can be (I know it's also very toxic) .
Thank you, have a nice summer.
[Edited on 14-8-2016 by Tricka90]
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