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jjgoh
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Primary Explosive questions
Hey guys , I'm new to here but not to pyrotechnics.
I want to make some primary explosive, they look interesting to me.
I do handle whistle mix, Armstrong mixture, flash powder, black powder and some pyrotechnics composition.
They are two primary explosive in my mind because of the chemical availability. There are HMTD and TATP. To make this two primary, I got the chemicals
like acetone, hexamine, citric acid (prills) , 98% H2SO4,H2O2 (6% & 35%)one acid look like HCL. The unknown acid didn't state what acid in it.
When I open the caps it was fuming like hell and my nose are hurt. Any idea? It state as mosaic bleach cleaner.
After some reading, I realise people's prefer TATP than HMTD. I'm not afraid mixing them in ice bath. I just super worried on storage and the process
in the fridge for 24 hours. I worried that it will explode in the fridge. How to store TATP? Some people said store it with water and place it into
freezer. My question is.. Will it frost the water and TATP?
How about temperature?
Mine room temperature are ~~30°C, humidity ~~75-86%
How about store in PET, Amber glass, tupperware, plastic lid?
Will they ignite without flame? Will they explode when diaper mix them? (just to make sure it in powder former)
Does the bang as loud as Armstrong mix?
Can I transport tatp to somewhere else? Like forest to do test.
Thanks! I want to ask before I make tatp
Do I qualify to make tatp? I had some experience with low explosive and Armstrong mix
Safer than sorry.
[Edited on 24-12-2013 by jjgoh]
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VladimirLem
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Hi
First: i would go for HMTD, not TATP...it seems to be -A BIT- more stable than TATP**
then, you better store the material at the fridge for 2-5C...normal room temperature (17C-22C) is NOT good, 30C as you said seems to be dangerous!
Do not put the material into a glass jar or other kind of container, so if set off it will only deflagrate and not detonate (only at small
batches!!)...
i have no experience at the armstong mixture but at a hammer test with only around 0.05g i got a tinitus! (for 2 hours)
BTW, i would be damn careful with that mixture too....(per-)chlorates and phosphor/sulfur are damn sensitive to friction/shock
TIP: If you want to stay at the 10fingers-club, only make small batches*** of HMTD (or TATP, if you cant resist)
i wouldn't use H2SO4 to make peroxides...take the citric acid...works pretty good and seems less dangerous...
befor making initial-caps with peroxides...make sure you know a bit how
sensitive they are (hammer test, friction test) AND do always use completly DRY material !!!
**but peroxides are fu*king dangerous, so be CAREFUL.
***1-3g at a time, not more
...last but not least, BE FUCKING CAREFUL !!!
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jjgoh
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I will, thanks for your reply and merry Christmas 
Except peroxide base primary explosive. Any other famous primary explosive recipe. I need substitution for some chemical like drain opener as h2so4.
Seems Like h2so4 very famous and a lot of people use it. Citric acid is a weak acid. Will it work too?
In my country it's summer all the way.. Highest temperature are 34C but I don't know why my room is 30C+-.. It's heaty when noon.
I will try measure the temp in my safe box that I use to store explosive. I am buying a military bullet heavy metal case and put them inside.
You make the hmtd too?
Any formula? I want make 2g in batch only.. I got problems with my maths.. Maybe I didn't count those in small quantities before. FMI, my scale only
support 1g not 0.1g.
If I can get kclo3, I won't be here I love explosive man.
Share me guide instead of flame me
Thanks! Merry Christmas
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Marvin
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Buy a better scale. 0.1g resolution scales are cheap on ebay. A scale that weighs in multiples of 1g will not weigh out 2g very accurately.
If you have hexamine, citric acid and hydrogen peroxide you don't need to mess with Acetone peroxide. Read Tenney L. Davis.
Armstrong's mixture is illegal in a lot of countries.
It's a natural impulse to want to keep what you've made, but you are best not storing it at all. Especially if you have no means of purifying it.
Make, use, destroy any residue.
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Ral123
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Wash acetone peroxide well with distilled water. Dry and store in a mineral water bottle, not more then few grams, in very dark place at lowest
temperature possible. Put appropriate labels. Hold the bottle with gloves, ear protection and googles, as far away from the material as possible.
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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Member phone died making TATP, so maybe make a gram no more. Nitrocellulose is fun too.
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caterpillar
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For what? NC is not a primary at all and was used in shells one hundred years ago (before TNP). One gr of TATP is enough to make 5-8 detonators. Make
some RDX -t is not very problematic, but requires lots of nitric acid. 1 gr of RDX + 0.2 gr of TATP (do not mix them! Put TATP onto pressed tablet of
RDX) will be enough to initiate explosives even with low sensibility like AN + Al.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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Quote: Originally posted by caterpillar  |
For what? NC is not a primary at all and was used in shells one hundred years ago (before TNP). One gr of TATP is enough to make 5-8 detonators. Make
some RDX -t is not very problematic, but requires lots of nitric acid. 1 gr of RDX + 0.2 gr of TATP (do not mix them! Put TATP onto pressed tablet of
RDX) will be enough to initiate explosives even with low sensibility like AN + Al. |
he made few hundred grams of TATP and... yeah you know what happens.. Well i suggested NC because normally new people here asking for few suggestion
really just want to see some flame and have some fun.
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Bot0nist
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I agree with dubia that TCAP is not very amatuer friendly, and NC is a better starting material for those intrested in energetics, but it is not a
primary, which is what he needs/wants. If you can make RDX or NC then you can surely make a much better primary than a crappy peroxide. If yroir set
on peroxides np amount of schoolmarming from we will stop you. Be safe and work smart and SMALL.
[Edited on 24-12-2013 by Bot0nist]
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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jjgoh
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First i want to say that , Secondary Explosives is overlimit and not for me . I don't want mess with secondary explosives ( yes, i know there are
safer than primary alot ) but still not interest in destroy something . I would like to try out HMTD seems you guys prefer me , i bought Hexamine
Tablet from Ace Hardware , Citric Acid ( Cleaning 99%) and for the H2O2 i can get 6% with 0.1% stabilizer easily but for 32% Food Grade H2O2 i need to
order online .
I coudn't get nitric acid and H2O2* 32%
After Check Out lot of books and chemistry ,
They are 3 primary explosives i can make with my current chemicals . ( Maybe only this two or others )
HMTD and TATP ,Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide ( No idea )
I need some guide on HMTD , because HMTD infos , videos lesser than TATP .
Correct me if i am wrong ,
Do HMTD 1grm sounds like PERCHLORATE+Black Indian AL Powder ?
As you guys said TATP is super sensitives , how do you guys press into a cap ?
NC is fun but not as fun as primary , i try out once with nighthawkinlight tutorials , it work pretty well..but boring!
Chemistry is fun man , thanks for those who answer my questions ! 
*can get it but just cant make sure the seller got stock .
[Edited on 25-12-2013 by jjgoh]
[Edited on 25-12-2013 by jjgoh]
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Ral123
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Low energy materials like AP/HMTD sound a lot weaker then flash. Here's a video that you might find interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHT-mq16Y30
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caterpillar
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TATP is more powerful than TNT. And it sounds very loud- when I first time made it, I wrapped 0.5 gr of it with tinfoil, put this charge onto a tablet
of dry fuel and ignited this tablet. Sound was remarkable sharp and loud. I pressed TATP, using ordinary pencil. There is another simple primary-
Ag2C2*AgNO3.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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| Quote: Originally posted by caterpillar | | TATP is more powerful than TNT. And it sounds very loud- when I first time made it, I wrapped 0.5 gr of it with tinfoil, put this charge onto a tablet
of dry fuel and ignited this tablet. Sound was remarkable sharp and loud. I pressed TATP, using ordinary pencil. There is another simple primary-
Ag2C2*AgNO3. |
TATP is not more powerful than TNT.
for primaries, why not make Nickle hydrazine nitrate (NHN) ? All you need is hydrazine hydrate and nickle nitrate.
[Edited on 25-12-2013 by DubaiAmateurRocketry]
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jjgoh
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I never heard about NHN. any idea how to get these chemical? Don't ask me search on ebay or what. I need to find product that use these chemicals and
I obtain from the product. I got problem getting kclo3 and al powder.
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Ral123
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| Quote: Originally posted by caterpillar | | TATP is more powerful than TNT. And it sounds very loud- when I first time made it, I wrapped 0.5 gr of it with tinfoil, put this charge onto a tablet
of dry fuel and ignited this tablet. Sound was remarkable sharp and loud. I pressed TATP, using ordinary pencil. There is another simple primary-
Ag2C2*AgNO3. |
Look at the video. It's far less powerful, also the next video is comparison with TNP. It gives somewhat of an idea of the energy density of the both.
Also 0.2g can work as primary at best case. 1g and a base charge is more realistic.
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caterpillar
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I took info from this: http://pirochem.net/index.php?id1=3&category=chemvvisost... . Next page contents data on ability to initiate secondaries. 0.18 gr of TATP,
pressed with cup, initiates TNT. It means, that 0.2 gr is more than enough to wake RDX up.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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jjgoh
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Do potassium chlorate + sulfur or potassium chlorate + phosphorus vod higher than hmtd or tatp? I burn a batch of kclo3+phosphorus and it make a thump
sounds and I feel the energy wave hit my chest
The mix is extracted from caps gun bullet contain kclo3+phosphorus +sulfur
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Ral123
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IIRC they use 0.5g azide in commercial caps, instead of 0.05g. For the sake of reliability, I don't think 0,2g is a good idea. I know a movie of an
ETN/NG charge failed miserebly because of poor design of the "AP detonator" and poor understanding of the seconadry. They also use thick walls, thin
bottom for the azide part of the blast cap btw.
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Marvin
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Acetone peroxide is not super sensitive, but the precursors are easy to get and so it is made a lot by people too lazy to make safer explosives. It
sublimes/decomposes readily, a few grams in open air just flash when ignited. When mildly confined it does detonate and it is an effective and very
brisant explosive. A dangerous combination of properties in anything but small amounts.
Primary explosives tend to give sharp snap, the higher the VoD the sharper. For a proper bang, black powder in a cardboard tube is often preferred.
Regarding NC suggestion by DubaiAmateurRocketry, it isn't a primary explosive, it flashes in the open air and wrapped in paper and sellotape
apparently produces quite a loud bang, but it requires large amounts of good acid and purification is very time consuming.
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jjgoh
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I guess I go for hmtd guys.. I got citric acid 99%(200g), conc H2SO4, hexamine fuel tablet, h2o2 35%
What is the process? Same like tatp? Let's make a poll between which of them is better to make in your opinion and reason. Then if tatp won I will
get acetone and make it. Currently I got no beaker or lab glassware. Do I need to get one or get a mayonnaise jar will do?
Do PET bottle generate static?
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plante1999
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Oh god, can any moderator do something here? This guy might hurt himself...
I never asked for this.
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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uhh, most new people dosnt get it, until they lose a finger or a hand.
Click here To watch an accident on organo peroxide.
I hope this serves as a warning for the OP. I strongly suggest you make 1 gram.. with thick gloves. and eye protection.
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NexusDNA
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Why don't you try something less suicidal to begin with? Organic peroxides are nasty, and there are many other primaries which are more suited for the
new experimenter.
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jjgoh
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Okay okay.. Sorry guys . I should follow step by step. Thanks anyway
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jjgoh
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So what should I do right now? Read more information on safety?
Oh god! That's seriously freaking dangerous! I guess I should not touch any primary first. Why that thing self ignite or the fuse is short?
Thanks for the video mate, I think it's a video for newbie who want mess with it
[Edited on 26-12-2013 by jjgoh]
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