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Author: Subject: Good Energetic Materials for a Novice
PeeWee2000
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[*] posted on 9-4-2014 at 21:33



Quote:
Here is someone new to the explosives arts. Please remember: Free explosives engineering information on the Internet is often worth every bit of what you pay for it!

-Edited by Bert, 10/4/14


I'm surprised I haven't seen any mention at all of nitroglycerin! It was the first energetic that I've ever made I didn't have any problems with it other than not wearing hearing protection. Take your time if you do make it though you dont want any red fumes :o Fairly stable until its dry at least in my experience someone correct me if they've had otherwise.
But definitley detonate outside and never store any amateur made energetics. Just a suggestion but if you're in an area where people dont like loud bangs do it at night, nobody will know where it came from if you only do it once ;) Or the patient chemist would wait until July :)

And if you want results more tailored to you I'd include what chemicals your able to or are comfortable making and have access to.

[Edited on 10-4-2014 by PeeWee2000]

[Edited on 10-4-2014 by Bert]




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Zyklon-A
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[*] posted on 9-4-2014 at 21:44


Nitroglycerin might be safe to a certain extent, if you are very careful, and take all safety precautions, but it definitely is Not for a beginner. Also he lacks nitric acid.

[Edited on 10-4-2014 by Zyklonb]




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[*] posted on 10-4-2014 at 05:19


Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb  
So you're saying to shoot at the AN-Al mixture with a gun? This I've gotta try!


He is describing a home made version of "Tannerite" exploding targets.

I would't suggest HE for a first energetic usually, but at least these do not require a blasting cap/primary explosives. And in the ratio they are mixed, you can hold a torch on a pile of the mixture and it will not burn, much safer in that regard than flash powder.

BUT!If you are too near one of these when it is shot, it will injure you, same as any other explosives.

In particular, you will find a LOT of YouTube videos showing "hard of thinking" users putting these explosives on or inside an object and blowing it up, leading to flying metal, wood, rocks or other heavy debris. Here's a news story where such idiots KILLED a man who just stopped by to watch the fun:

The idiots were standing less than 100 feet from a high explosive device inside a metal structure. For fun. WHAT could go wrong?!


Killing someone by being stupid leads to manslaughter charges

They killed this man, who had only stopped by to tend cattle pastured on the land where these people were having a party. It was father's day- His two sons were with him, and they got to see their father die.

No such thing as a "safe first energetic material"? Perhaps I should say "no such thing as a "safe first time energetic materials USER"

I say again: find an experienced person or group, learn as an apprentice.




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Zyklon-A
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[*] posted on 10-4-2014 at 09:19


Man, that's pretty sad... I of course would do it far away from anyone, I never shoot near anyone, except maybe my friends, who I shoot with.
I think NC is the best beginner's "real", explosive, ETN, is good, but only after you have had quite a bit of experience, and only in small amounts.




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PeeWee2000
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[*] posted on 10-4-2014 at 22:13


Bert is right do your own research and take every precatuion.

Nitroglycerin was my first energetic and also my last. I found them to be unnessecarily dangerous and not worth the time, effort and risk for just a bang in the end. I took every safety precatuion except ear plugs. When I was making it I had a full 5 gallon bucket ready to douse the reaction mixture at any second if need be and while I was detonating I was wearing a full face shield and used a jury rigged remote rocket detonator and hid behind a big tree. And keep in mind this was only a couple ml of NG amount matters ALOT in energetics.

I like to see people interested in energetics and encourage them but I (stupidly as Bert pointed out :( ) assume they've lurked on this site as long as I and read about members and various people dying from stupidity quite frequently. Not trying to kill him just giving a suggestion of a more involved yet still doable by a novice synthesis.




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Armistice19
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thumbup.gif posted on 20-7-2015 at 20:24
GODSEND


Quote: Originally posted by plante1999  
If you would like to try something that detonates readily, silver azide is quite easy to synthesize, and detonates with slight heating. The advantage over most other primaries is the stability if stored in the dark. It is very sensitive to static, but if carefully handled it won't go off without reason, will keep well, and will be reliable when needed. It does not make large crystals when synthesized, which simplify the synthesis compared to the lead azide.


Thank God someone posted this. I have been far too fearful to attempt ANY primary, until I read this description of silver azide.

I value my fear, because complacency can kill you, but an overload of fear can kill you as well.

I find silver azide, (by your description) to be the best middle choice for me that there is right now. So thank you!




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[*] posted on 31-7-2015 at 11:50


I was 15 a couple of weeks ago, I am probably 4-5 years off wanting to try things that are meant to go bang (Ive had things go bang that were not intended too!). i have had some real newb mistakes and some hairy fires/situations, so I already know I am not a natural Chemist. So with the knowledge I can sometimes take the shortcut route at the wrong time and cut the wrong corners I have started to be more realistic about what I should and shouldnt try, have a real honest talk to yourself and be honest about your abilities and methods, ask stuff like 'Am I a risk taker?', How many stupid things have I donr in six months?
Then go find a expert with as few scars and bits missing as you can (as Bert said) tell them to what degree you are unsafe and learn from them.
For me Bangs would get really dull if I couldnt hear them anymore ;). Also obviously take advice from the guys here, they dont spoil fun for the sake of it but they do keep people alive.




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[*] posted on 31-7-2015 at 13:19


Seconding the opinion about black powder. After this seems too tame, you can try chlorate powder (potassium chlorate + carbon). It is more potent than black powder, but less safe.
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[*] posted on 31-7-2015 at 13:42


Quote: Originally posted by ave369  
Seconding the opinion about black powder. After this seems too tame, you can try chlorate powder (potassium chlorate + carbon). It is more potent than black powder, but less safe.


Make sure you stipulate potassium chlorate + carbon only. No sulfur as per standard potassium nitrate black powder.
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[*] posted on 3-8-2015 at 09:07


Actually you may add Sulfur but then you MUST add a sulfuric acid scavenger...I used CaCO3 dust to the extend of 5%...you loose a little power but you add a lot of safety and a beautifull red-orange colour when burning :D.

KClO3/C/S black powder is one of the most brisant if intimately mixed (do separately grind C/CaCO3 & S on one side and the KClO3 on the other, and avoid too energetical a mixing of the loose powdery ingredients ... remember friction and shock sensitive --> diapering).
I had 3cm diameter 1mm thickness and 3cm high copper pipe opened on both sides put on the ground with about 2 coffee spoons of that powder not pressed with a very long straw fuse...the pipe detonated and was pulverised.
A plastic straw fuse (3mm diameter) made with that powder burned like in 0.5 second for the 35cm...by chance I did a fuse pre-test...usually my fuses with black powder or NaClO3(60%)-NaCl(40%) (weed killer) /S/C/CaCO3 burned like in 10 seconds!

For a University demo at Free University of Brussels, science expo "Order and Chaos" I have boosted my NaClO3/S/C/CaCO3 with dust of silver nitrate acetylide complex...the bengal fire paper pyramid turned into a serious banger with shockwave...for the pleasure and enthousiams of chemical teachers and their pupils visiting the university open day.

I think that for beginners silver acetylide nitrate complex (Ag-C#C-Ag. x AgNO3. y HNO3)or nickel nitrate hydrazinate complex (Ni(N2H4)3(NO3)2) are easy and relatively safe energetic materials...but they must be used in tiny quantity and with good précautions...the first detonate by shock or flame in nearly all quantities 10 mg unconfined can make you deaf in a closed room; the second one only shows its power when wrapped into Aluminium foil...and submitted to heat (detonates when confined)...a 500 mg wrapped trown in an open fire will make a 30cm diameter bright fireball and propel ignited wooden parts a few meters arround with a sharp BANG...of course avoid doing this with people arround the fire!




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[*] posted on 6-8-2015 at 19:09


Inspired by Grant Thompson the king of random, I've been having heaps of fun filling party balloons from a small HHO cell and attaching a homemade black powder fuse, the booms are impressively loud and deep. best of all, the suspicion is carried away from me on an air currant:)
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[*] posted on 6-8-2015 at 20:31


You can also make cheddite, it is another energetic material based on potassium chlorate. One recipe is 90:5:5 chlorate, paraffin and petroleum jelly. Also add lighter gasoline to dissolve the paraffin and jelly, which later has to be evaporated for the cheddite to solidify. It is a plastified material sensitive to strong impact.



[Edited on 7-8-2015 by ave369]
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[*] posted on 7-8-2015 at 09:03


Quote: Originally posted by ave369  
You can also make cheddite, it is another energetic material based on potassium chlorate. One recipe is 90:5:5 chlorate, paraffin and petroleum jelly. Also add lighter gasoline to dissolve the paraffin and jelly, which later has to be evaporated for the cheddite to solidify. It is a plastified material sensitive to strong impact.

You need more than strong impact...a strong detonator and container are also needed.
More sensitive variant exist with nitroaromatics (Nitrobenzene, DNB, TNB, NT, DNT, TNT)...




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[*] posted on 7-8-2015 at 19:57


I would say the best bang for a beginner would be copper thermite ignited with KMnO4 and glycerin. Although you don't synthesize it it is very satisfying with 5 micron Al and good fine CuO. you have time to get a safe distance and you can familiarize yourself with the Goldscmidt reaction and try other oxdides that may not be energetic but just as amazing.
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[*] posted on 7-8-2015 at 21:17


HMTD is what really impressed me and showed me what the explosivee really are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9hcfpgrDAo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtarXzf8th4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeVb__wn6aU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmT-a3zFe48
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[*] posted on 7-8-2015 at 22:18


I haven't made it, but PETN seems somewhat safe if handled carefully and in small amounts. There are many energetic compounds with stringed letters such as PETN, and there are many videos online about them. Just a thought. Silver Acetylide is also safe IF made in SMALL quantities. Here is a video on the synthesis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl43G1tW0lE
Hope this helps some.
Before I get comments saying "NO, THAT IS NOT SAFE, ARE YOU STUPID?" I did say IN SMALL AMOUNTS. Don't think you can treat this stuff like pop-its.
Nitrocellulose is pretty fun as well if you want to keep it simple.




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[*] posted on 8-8-2015 at 03:22


Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone  

You need more than strong impact...a strong detonator and container are also needed.
More sensitive variant exist with nitroaromatics (Nitrobenzene, DNB, TNB, NT, DNT, TNT)...


I dunno, but an acquaintance of mine showed me cheddite exploding from a Chinese firecracker stuck into it. And another ball of cheddite that went bang after being thrown from a height. Maybe it wasn't the recipe I posted, but I was under the impression that that was the case.

[Edited on 8-8-2015 by ave369]
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[*] posted on 18-8-2015 at 17:30


Potassium chlorate based high explosives cover a VERY wide range of compositions and sensitivities-

https://books.google.com/books?id=dIdBAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA106&...

Their are good and ample reasons modern military and civil HE users make little use of chlorates.




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3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

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[*] posted on 20-8-2015 at 13:28


I'd recommend iron thermite, since it's very bright and energetic but not explosive. Also, you can light a bit of aluminum powder on it's own to get a very strange and very bright effect.
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