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Author: Subject: Just had cops show up
chemrox
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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 13:36


You might have had a notebook detailing experiments with possible analgesics using chemical names of course and had no problems. Questions: why did you admit them? why did you answer questions? If you don't exercise you're rights you will lose them. Do you try to make them like you? If so you're a sucker. To the statement, "I can be back in an hour with a warrant.." Reply, "I'll be here!" It's almost always a bluff. A nosy neighbor doesn't constitute probable cause. If you're vague about the legality of what you're doing, look up the applicable laws instead of feeling and probably looking guilty. Keep regular hours. It's not required but helps. Check your state pharmacy board and see if there's a precursor registration. If there is pay the $100 or whatever and have the certificate. I once had a cop show up in response to a citizen report of something totally innocent and legal. I was out with a friend and my wife looking at houses. After the cop visit, I called the community outreach part of the police dept. and the next day I got apologies from the cop and the citizen.



"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 13:51


Quote: Originally posted by numos  
Good god, this is Texas? Isn't this the state where 5 year olds get shotguns for birthdays? Manage the priorities, by god. I'm hoping California is a bit more lenient, thought they still have a lot of environmental regulations.


Priorities indeed. In terms of danger to the public: guns>chemicals by far.
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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 14:44


Quote: Originally posted by chemrox  
You might have had a notebook detailing experiments with possible analgesics using chemical names of course and had no problems. Questions: why did you admit them? why did you answer questions? If you don't exercise you're rights you will lose them. Do you try to make them like you? If so you're a sucker. To the statement, "I can be back in an hour with a warrant.." Reply, "I'll be here!" It's almost always a bluff. A nosy neighbor doesn't constitute probable cause. If you're vague about the legality of what you're doing, look up the applicable laws instead of feeling and probably looking guilty. Keep regular hours. It's not required but helps. Check your state pharmacy board and see if there's a precursor registration. If there is pay the $100 or whatever and have the certificate. I once had a cop show up in response to a citizen report of something totally innocent and legal. I was out with a friend and my wife looking at houses. After the cop visit, I called the community outreach part of the police dept. and the next day I got apologies from the cop and the citizen.


If you had read ALL my posts thoroughly you would realize I was living at MY DAUGHTER-IN-LAWS. I was at church when this transpired and she let them in. I do know AND exercise my Fourth Amendment rights. I've gotten out of a car before and locked the keys in when being pulled over "just in case".

I was doing nothing with analgesics--my experiments concerned uric acid and plant pigments; I ran an electrochemical cell to make my own NaOH as it is a pain in the ass to even find for sale any more.

I also had a lot of home-made copper compounds because they are fucking gorgeous. Now I'm living in a damned motel, and working on chromatography of wild flower pigments. The housecleaning staff and Land-Lady here are apprised and have no problems with it.

I am a 50 year old "Ex-Felon", been down that road. I went to prison in 1993 for CA H & S 11359(a) "Possession of Concentrated Cannabis"

READ ALL MY POSTS before you assume.




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The Volatile Chemist
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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 14:57



Quote:
I ran an electrochemical cell to make my own NaOH as it is a pain in the ass to even find for sale any more.

Making it from baking soda? Wow.




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Zyklon-A
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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 15:02


Who said he made it from sodium bicarbonate? Sodium chloride I'm sure, that's how everyone makes it - via electrolysis at least.



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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 15:04


Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb  
Who said he made it from sodium bicarbonate? Sodium chloride I'm sure, that's how everyone makes it - via electrolysis at least.

Oh... Isn't a NaCl cell for chlorates though...? I really don't know of the common ways things like this are done...




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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 15:33


NaCl. Ya gotta have a diaphragm cell. And I know your ^^^ "skittish" of drug cookery related stuff, but that is how I found out how to make it. From "King's Chemistry Survival Guide". Cops had NO access to my laptop, fortunately, because I have scads of such literature in various Calibre libraries. Ya want it, I'll private torrent it to you. Or FTP.



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The Volatile Chemist
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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 15:56


Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  
NaCl. Ya gotta have a diaphragm cell. And I know your ^^^ "skittish" of drug cookery related stuff, but that is how I found out how to make it. From "King's Chemistry Survival Guide". Cops had NO access to my laptop, fortunately, because I have scads of such literature in various Calibre libraries. Ya want it, I'll private torrent it to you. Or FTP.

Na. (Sodium, yep...) I'm taking chemistry for the next two school years. I'll ask my teachers the 'drug chem' questions, there's no hard copy of their responces for the cops to get :P LOL, just kidding. I'll find some other more legal ways to get chemistry info. Thanks though.




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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 16:24


clay flowerpot, sat solution NaCl, battery rod electrodes and 12 volts. NaOCl at anode and NaOH at cathode. NaClO3 ya get from a diagphramLESS cell.

Edit-And we are in the United States, young man. Information is NOT illegal yet and when it is, I'm liable to actually take up arms (Are ya listening, Ft. George G. Meade?). It saddens me that our young people are being conditioned to a police state mentality. I ordered "Pyrotechny" by George Weingart from the Florida State Library when I was about 12. They didn't bat an eyeball.

Are you familiar with the term "Chilling Effects"? You've been chilled and don't even realize it. You ARE giving up your liberty. Not trying to lecture to awful bad, but ponder this please. I would have U2U'ed this conversation, but I want ALL the young folks here to think on this.

Quote:
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


^^^BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, one of "our" greatest citizen scientists.

I'm getting old, have MAYBE 30 years left, so the torch of liberty needs to be taken up by younger hands What kind of world do YOU want to inherit?

Edit--P.S. this IS a "drug cookery" and "bomb-making" site LOL--however, both require real science to pull off properly. Quit being scared.

[Edited on 6-10-2014 by arkoma]

[Edited on 6-10-2014 by arkoma]




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numos
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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 17:28


Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  
Information is NOT illegal yet
[Edited on 6-10-2014 by arkoma]


Exactly, and this isn't even the biggest issue, it's the public blandness, the police aren't intuitive, if you asked me, people should be judged by logic and reason, not rules and regulations, OR more ideally the rules and regulations would be based of logic and reason, but this is quite obviously not the case.




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The Volatile Chemist
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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 18:43


SSL and security have their purposes. The days of 1984 (The book) will come soon. I don't think I'll care too much If I'm not allowed to look at certtain documents. About 1 week from now, I plan to begin doing some reading on security methods. Won't be as 'fraidy' once I know how safe something like ssl or httpos are or are not.



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Texium
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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 18:44


And even when logic and reason are used, some idiot politicians or lawyers are always finding loopholes so that laws have to be made more strict and less allowing for exceptions. It's a problem with human greed, ignorance, and also with semantics, in that there is no good way to express meaning that can not be tainted by technicalities. Thus, stupid laws that are way too broad emerge.
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Zephyr
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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 19:13


Does anyone know of any of the these laws. I have searched Google but have only come across DEA lists of suspicious chemicals. Nothing on how possession of these chemicals is prosecuted. It would be nice to have some sort of legal documentation to hang in my lab, if only to convince the police of my legitimacy.



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The Volatile Chemist
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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 19:15


I agree! I'd print'em out if someone knows where to find them.



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[*] posted on 9-6-2014 at 19:20


@volatile. Read "Little Brother" by Cory Doctorow. IT COULD HAPPEN TOMORROW. IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU. The book is available FREE as he has "copylefted" it with creative commons. "Copyright is dead, long live copyleft".

@Pinkhippo11. I too try to find these laws. No luck. My brother did time in california for "illegal storage" of hazardous chemicals, but then again he had about a gallon of phenylacetone.............and methylamine. Didja get the link for "grandad's"?




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Texium
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[*] posted on 10-6-2014 at 14:07


I also just started a notebook, figured it would be best to be on the safe side, and it might actually be kind of fun too.
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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[*] posted on 10-6-2014 at 14:14


Take this with a grain of salt and in addition to your own research, I am not a lawyer, blah blah etcetera.

It's totally cool on a federal level to have DEA List I and II chemicals. Suppliers are responsible for recording your purchases once you go over certain limits, however. Scheduled substances and analogues are another story, but if you were getting into that you'd know it.

However, at the state and local level, different jurisdictions may have less tolerance, like areas of Texas where they have legal leeway to straight up assume possessing certain combinations of chemicals equals intent to manufacture. Usually, this sort of thing isn't acted on, it's supposed to be a measure for hitting drug cooks harder even if they're not caught with their hands directly in the cookie jar, but it can be, and has been, abused all to hell. (Many of these laws are almost certainly unconstitutional. In all likelihood they will not be challenged.)

It's difficult to find local ordinances sometimes. Many/most of them applicable to home chemists relate to fire safety. You don't want to get busted for something vague like "endangerment" by someone who didn't want an unwarranted drug bust to go to waste. If you can't find the information yourself, call your fire department and see if there are any regulations on storage of chemicals in the home.

If you do anything related to explosives or use equipment/chemicals commonly used in drug manufacture, you're going to want to dig up information on those as well. Properly disposing of hazardous waste is also a plus. If you can neutralize something, do it. If you can't, store it until either you can handle it yourself, or you can get it to someone who can. A local university may be of some help.

[Edited on 6-10-2014 by Etaoin Shrdlu]
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[*] posted on 10-6-2014 at 18:01


Etaoin Shrdlu has really provided a good level of insight into potential legal issues. If a local jurisdiction wants to bust you even though there is no prohibition on ownership of various chemicals, etc., it certainly can do so. Virtually anything you do or own can be criminalized using various environmental or zoning laws, especially here in California. Unfortunately, that is what we have to put up with as anything with the association to "chemicals" induces extreme anxiety in the low information population.

AvB
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The Volatile Chemist
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[*] posted on 10-6-2014 at 18:43


Thanks, Etaoin. I'd rather be safe than have to ever talk to a cop, I make comments sometimes that are easily taken wrong.



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[*] posted on 10-6-2014 at 19:02


Quote: Originally posted by AvBaeyer  
Etaoin Shrdlu has really provided a good level of insight into potential legal issues. If a local jurisdiction wants to bust you even though there is no prohibition on ownership of various chemicals, etc., it certainly can do so. Virtually anything you do or own can be criminalized using various environmental or zoning laws, especially here in California. Unfortunately, that is what we have to put up with as anything with the association to "chemicals" induces extreme anxiety in the low information population.

AvB


This is the direct result of government induced fear and terror--"chilling effects". I went looking for some statistics a minute ago, and this is what I found:

(these stats apply to the United States)

1.6 MILLION crashes each year due to cell phone usage while driving.
Source
40,393 "drug induced deaths"
Source
3,487 deaths and 11,318 injuries from "terrorism"
Source

Yet, our tax dollars are applied to idiotic endeavors like the DEA and their "lists" and a supposed "war on terror". Driving and texting is a fricking traffic offense. To ANYONE with a BRAIN capable of reasoning it would seem that cell phones are a "CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER" and should be outlawed, doors kicked in for them, and life sentences handed out for possession of such dangerous devices!!! (I don't happen to own one LOL)

Are you listening, alphabet soup agencies? I know you are.

Patrick Alan Wastie, and I VOTE.




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The Volatile Chemist
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[*] posted on 10-6-2014 at 19:58


Lol, I don't have a cell either.
Like, why does the government even care about us? It's not like they're making money off turning in supposed terrorists :)




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[*] posted on 10-6-2014 at 20:27


Because we make good "news". Bureaucracies are self-perpetuating, and they need a "raison d'etre". In my mind, we need a Department of Cellphone Security WAYYYYY more than an alleged Department of Homeland Security, or a Drug Enforcement Agency. The statistics clearly show whats more of a "clear and present danger" to the American peeps!!!

I have a googlevoice # BTW so i am not telecommunicationsless, though.




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[*] posted on 10-6-2014 at 21:08


Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  

Are you listening, alphabet soup agencies? I know you are.


Is this what they are called now? A very fitting name... :)

Just out of curiosity, what do they do with the confiscated drugs and equipment? I doubt they keep it in storage indefinitely. So they destroy it? Sell it?




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The Volatile Chemist
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[*] posted on 11-6-2014 at 07:46


Quote: Originally posted by numos  
Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  

Are you listening, alphabet soup agencies? I know you are.


Is this what they are called now? A very fitting name... :)

Just out of curiosity, what do they do with the confiscated drugs and equipment? I doubt they keep it in storage indefinitely. So they destroy it? Sell it?

AFAIK they destroy it. That's what they did with a load of illegal ivory.




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[*] posted on 11-6-2014 at 09:12


the u.s.? one of the most corrupt governments on earth? sell it, i'm sure...after using such items to secure greater amounts of drugs and/or other contraband.
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