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Author: Subject: What if?
Texium

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Well, throughout history, yes, for example Stalin. He called himself a communist even though he was a fascist dictator whose rule didn't resemble communism at all. It shouldn't be something that taints communism as an ideology, just as there are plenty of examples of countries that call themselves democratic but are not in any way, such as the DPRK or the DRC.

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Praxichys
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What if religion was widely accepted to be an obsolete way of thinking?

SirViking
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What if the light spectrum within which humans can see was greatly expanded?

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Texium

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 Quote: Originally posted by SirViking What if the light spectrum within which humans can see was greatly expanded?

That's something I've always wondered about. It would be weird to see things in infrared and ultraviolet as well as everything we can already see. Or if you could see the entire spectrum, and just choose what part you want to see whenever you want! Literal x-ray vision!

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The Volatile Chemist
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 Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys What if religion was widely accepted to be an obsolete way of thinking?

What if your mom was widely accepted to be an obsolete way of thinking? C'mon, this is misc., not whimsey. You're just asking for trouble when you say things like that.

Brain&Force
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I really should have put this in Whimsy. Personally, I favor the Nordic model.

What if the strong force was a lot stronger than it is now? Would we have a MASSIVE periodic table? What about technetium and promethium - would they exist as stable isotopes? Would stars still be the way they are? Would the diproton be stable with respect to electron capture? Would life exist?

At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
SirViking
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Quote: Originally posted by zts16
 Quote: Originally posted by SirViking What if the light spectrum within which humans can see was greatly expanded?

That's something I've always wondered about. It would be weird to see things in infrared and ultraviolet as well as everything we can already see. Or if you could see the entire spectrum, and just choose what part you want to see whenever you want! Literal x-ray vision!

Some animals can see outside of the visible spectrum, infrared or ultraviolet, but I don't believe that there are any species that can see past those?

If you come upon a fork in the road, take it.
arkoma
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amazon parrots see in the UV, in fact thats how a boy parrot can tell a female by sight alone. "Tetrachromatic"

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.
neptunium
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 Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force What if the strong force was a lot stronger than it is now? Would we have a MASSIVE periodic table? What about technetium and promethium - would they exist as stable isotopes? Would stars still be the way they are? Would the diproton be stable with respect to electron capture? Would life exist?

any changes to the fundamental forces of the universe would have a dramatic impact on it.

a stronger nuclear force would increase the energy released by the stars during thermonuclear fusion, creating extremly large and hotter brighter stars that wouldnt live much longer than a few million years .
making life (as we know it) impossible to evolve.
the periodic table would indeed be much smaller and may not even make it to iron.
radioactive decay is trigger in large part by weak nuclear force . for lighter element a proton decay would be common amongst heavier element (like sodium in this case)
however i cannot imagine a diproton system stable without a neutron the interactions of these hadron is the source of the strong force ... it seems to contredict its own meaning.

Zyklon-A
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What if Dark matter is what the earth is made of?

[Edited on 5-8-2014 by Zyklon-A]
Brain&Force
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 Quote: Originally posted by neptunium any changes to the fundamental forces of the universe would have a dramatic impact on it. a stronger nuclear force would increase the energy released by the stars during thermonuclear fusion, creating extremly large and hotter brighter stars that wouldnt live much longer than a few million years . making life (as we know it) impossible to evolve. the periodic table would indeed be much smaller and may not even make it to iron. radioactive decay is trigger in large part by weak nuclear force . for lighter element a proton decay would be common amongst heavier element (like sodium in this case) however i cannot imagine a diproton system stable without a neutron the interactions of these hadron is the source of the strong force ... it seems to contredict its own meaning.

The periodic table would be larger - not smaller. If anything, the dead zone for nuclear fusion would be farther away because each nucleon would pull on the other more strongly, thus keeping it bound.

At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
arkoma
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What if.............

There was no such thing as potable ethanol

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Zyklon-A
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Then they'd make potable pot!

Fenir
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What if humans suddenly gained the ability to see more colours?
neptunium
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 Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force The periodic table would be larger - not smaller. If anything, the dead zone for nuclear fusion would be farther away because each nucleon would pull on the other more strongly, thus keeping it bound.

all element are born in stars , if the strong force is greater then it would be harder for stars to generate heavy elements.
fission would release more energy but fusion would consume more...
Iron signify the end of a star life and the fusion stops ..
in an hypotical universe where strong nuclear force is greater this would happen sooner , hence a smaller periodic table.

if the rules are changed today.. then yes some trans uranium elements might have stable isotopes.

Texium

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So basically the periodic table would have the potential to be larger, but the amount of naturally occurring elements would be much smaller and even more heavily skewed towards lighter elements, and life as we know it wouldn't exist since some heavy elements are essential to life.

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neptunium
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thats exactly right! in physics there is no free ride... you get back what you put in minus some loses.
also life would not have time to develope in this hypothetical universe with giant hot stars and few planets.
the life cycle of these stars would also be very fast too fast for life to have time to start and evolve.

Brain&Force
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I still have to disagree.

A stronger nuclear force would increase the amount of energy needed to split apart nuclei (binding energy would increase). Thus, fusion would net much more energy than fission (if fission could net energy at all). The attraction between distant nucleons would be stronger, and larger nuclei would therefore be more stable. The peak stability would be a higher nuclear mass.

For reference, the Yukawa potential is defined as follows:

$V_{Yukawa}=-g^{2}\tfrac{e^{-kmr}}{r}$

where g is a scaling constant, k is another scaling constant, m is the mass of the mediating field, and r is the distance from the particle.

The electric potential is defined as follows:

$V_{E}=k\tfrac{q}{r}$

where k is Coulomb's constant, q is the electric charge, and r is the distance from the particle.

Of note, hydrogen would probably have been consumed too fast for organic chemistry as we know it to develop sufficiently. The main problem would be the lack of light isotopes. Stars, of course, would not last through their hydrogen-fusing stage very long, and stars would most likely fuse their heavier elements. Alpha decay would be a really weird process which would spit out relatively heavy nuclei.

Also, the r-process and s-process would produce larger amounts of heavy elements if nuclear fusion couldn't.

At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
aga
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it's obvious.

if the nuclear force were stronger, everything would *appear* to be the same.

Just that i'd be even more Dense than i am now.

arkoma
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What if......

Aga and I simultaneously sobered up?

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neptunium
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 Quote: Originally posted by aga it's obvious. if the nuclear force were stronger, everything would *appear* to be the same. Just that i'd be even more Dense than i am now.

why ? no you wouldn't

neptunium
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A stronger nuclear force would increase the amount of energy needed to split apart nuclei (binding energy would increase). Thus, fusion would net much more energy than fission (if fission could net energy at all).

again there is no free ride in physics, if fission free more energy this energy has to come frome somewhere.
where ? the massive stars that gave it birth by spending massive amount of energy to fuse it together

The attraction between distant nucleons would be stronger, and larger nuclei would therefore be more stable..[/rquote]

the strong nuclear force ONLY kicks in when nucleons are increadibly close to one another.... the stronger the bond does not mean a longer action at a distance.

The peak stability would be a higher nuclear mass

why ? it would be reach much sooner than now! thats just common sense! right ?

neptunium
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 Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force For reference, the Yukawa potential is defined as follows: $V_{Yukawa}=-g^{2}\tfrac{e^{-kmr}}{r}$ where g is a scaling constant, k is another scaling constant, m is the mass of the mediating field, and r is the distance from the particle.

looking at g in our scenario, it is a multiplying factor that has no interactions with m or k the result is a stronger bond (V)
the field of action does not change neither does the mass

increasing G increases V but is fully indepandent from m and k

[Edited on 8-8-2014 by neptunium]

Velzee
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What if elements >118 were stable and non-toxic to life?

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
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j_sum1

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 Quote: Originally posted by Velzee What if elements >118 were stable and non-toxic to life?

We'd have very effective fishing sinkers.
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 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Miscellaneous » What if? Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues