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Author: Subject: Carbon Monoxide
Hermes_Trismegistus
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[*] posted on 14-3-2005 at 13:57
Carbon Monoxide


When iron oxide is smelted, carbon monoxide is blasted through the melt yielding carbon dioxide and liquid iron.

But all the techno books I've read on heavy industry (and history) stop there. This process was popularized in the 1800's so it cannot be that complicated. (sic)

but I cannot find any real literature on the production of CO(g).

If I were to guess ( a favorite pastime) I would say that burning coke, and then passing the fumes through more heated coke would do the trick. (Carbon dioxide decomposes at high temperatures.

P.S.All I get in searching is the nauseatingly common knowledge that with incomplete combustion carbon monoxide is produced.....but....How much? what ratio? how to minimize carbon dioxide production???

EDIT:generated by heating oxalic acid with conc. sulfuric acid

H2C2O4 -----> CO + CO2 + H2O

[Edited on 14-3-2005 by Hermes_Trismegistus]




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The_Davster
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[*] posted on 14-3-2005 at 15:15


There is also the reaction of formic acid and concentrated sulfuric acid to produce CO. Perhaps formic acid could be replaced by sodium formate and excess sulfuric acid. Sodium formate is fairly easy to produce OTC, just allow chloroform to sit in a solution of sodium hydroxide for a week or so at room temperature. It worked for me, yielding 3 large (1cm3) crystals of sodium formate after a week or so of sitting in the garage. Do not let it sit too long or the sodium formate will strangly dissapear from the bottom of the beaker and reapear upon the upper inside and outside edges of the beaker.



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Mr. Wizard
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[*] posted on 14-3-2005 at 17:35


If you just want quantity, not quality, try passing air through an excess of red hot charcoal. You will remove all the oxygen and make CO. Some CO2 will be made but the preference is for CO. Early in the 20th century a popular method of making 'producer gas', for heating and lighting, was to run steam through red hot coke, generating a mix of CO and H2, plus any inert gasses that went in. I'm sure you knew this already.

[Edited on 15-3-2005 by Mr. Wizard]




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neutrino
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[*] posted on 14-3-2005 at 20:00


There’s always the industrial water gas reaction:

C + H<sub>2</sub>O -> CO + H<sub>2</sub>
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[*] posted on 14-3-2005 at 20:38


The yield is very, very good.



Somewhere I have a pic that's nothing but hazy blue flames, but I can't find it. I get the best CO output when there's a hot bed (circa 2000°F+) and a fresh charge of cold charcoal on top.

Tim
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neutrino
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[*] posted on 15-3-2005 at 03:31


Is that burning water gas?
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12AX7
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[*] posted on 15-3-2005 at 06:05


Well, whatever comes off the furnace. There is very little hydrogen in charcoal, and I don't have a steam feed, so it would have to be mainly CO. The red and orange in the picture is mostly due to tar content and the heat below.

Tim
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Mr. Wizard
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[*] posted on 15-3-2005 at 08:17


Water gas is the same as 'Producer Gas'. It was the gas made by the urban gas companies in the late 19th and early 20th century; the "Gas Works". It was made by by running steam H2O through red hot coke C. The reaction was not exothermic, so they had to either alternate air and steam to keep the coke red hot, or mix a little air with the steam to keep the coke hot. The air mix led to extra nitrogen in the gas, and a lower BTU content, but it could be run continuously. They would store the gas in big floating top tanks for daily use, and replenish them after peak use. The gas was dirty and poisonous. The CO content was the cause of the toxicity. You still see references to people trying suicide with gas by sticking their heads in an oven. Most municipal gas in the US today is Methane, or Natural Gas, sometimes with a slight mix of propane to adjust it's BTU content. Pure LPG or Propane is another gas altogether, as I'm sure you all know.



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[*] posted on 16-3-2005 at 14:16


Producer gas is not the same as water gas. One is derived from coke and steam, the other from coke and air. The two materials were often made on the same sites and mixed. Only water gas gets used in the water gas shift reaction.
The "gas works" of the 19th and 20th C may also have got it's gas from destructive distillation of coal. The process was developed by a bloke named Mr Towns, leading to the name Towns gas. Unfortunately, most people failed to notice the capital T and assumed that the name was due to municipal ownership of the manufacturing plant. The product was full of tars etc and needed to be purified- these by-products became the raw materials for the chemical industry, for example the "coal tar dyes". It also meant that gas works stank.
All of these industries (and the manufacture of coke for steelmaking) were allied to one-another and were often done on the same site.
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[*] posted on 16-3-2005 at 21:58


You are right. The water gas does not have any nitrogen in it, whereas the producer gas does, due to using air.



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