Hermes_Trismegistus
National Hazard
Posts: 602
Registered: 27-11-2003
Location: Greece, Ancient
Member Is Offline
Mood: conformation:ga
|
|
Carbon Monoxide
When iron oxide is smelted, carbon monoxide is blasted through the melt yielding carbon dioxide and liquid iron.
But all the techno books I've read on heavy industry (and history) stop there. This process was popularized in the 1800's so it cannot be
that complicated. (sic)
but I cannot find any real literature on the production of CO(g).
If I were to guess ( a favorite pastime) I would say that burning coke, and then passing the fumes through more heated coke would do the trick.
(Carbon dioxide decomposes at high temperatures.
P.S.All I get in searching is the nauseatingly common knowledge that with incomplete combustion carbon monoxide is produced.....but....How much? what
ratio? how to minimize carbon dioxide production???
EDIT:generated by heating oxalic acid with conc. sulfuric acid
H2C2O4 -----> CO + CO2 + H2O
[Edited on 14-3-2005 by Hermes_Trismegistus]
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
There is also the reaction of formic acid and concentrated sulfuric acid to produce CO. Perhaps formic acid could be replaced by sodium formate and
excess sulfuric acid. Sodium formate is fairly easy to produce OTC, just allow chloroform to sit in a solution of sodium hydroxide for a week or so
at room temperature. It worked for me, yielding 3 large (1cm3) crystals of sodium formate after a week or so of sitting in the garage. Do not let it
sit too long or the sodium formate will strangly dissapear from the bottom of the beaker and reapear upon the upper inside and outside edges of the
beaker.
|
|
|
Mr. Wizard
International Hazard
Posts: 1042
Registered: 30-3-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If you just want quantity, not quality, try passing air through an excess of red hot charcoal. You will remove all the oxygen and make CO. Some CO2
will be made but the preference is for CO. Early in the 20th century a popular method of making 'producer gas', for heating and lighting,
was to run steam through red hot coke, generating a mix of CO and H2, plus any inert gasses that went in. I'm sure you knew this already.
[Edited on 15-3-2005 by Mr. Wizard]
|
|
|
neutrino
International Hazard
Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: oscillating
|
|
There’s always the industrial water gas reaction:
C + H<sub>2</sub>O -> CO + H<sub>2</sub>
|
|
|
12AX7
Post Harlot
Posts: 4803
Registered: 8-3-2005
Location: oscillating
Member Is Offline
Mood: informative
|
|
The yield is very, very good.
Somewhere I have a pic that's nothing but hazy blue flames, but I can't find it. I get the best CO output when there's a hot bed
(circa 2000°F+) and a fresh charge of cold charcoal on top.
Tim
|
|
|
neutrino
International Hazard
Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: oscillating
|
|
Is that burning water gas?
|
|
|
12AX7
Post Harlot
Posts: 4803
Registered: 8-3-2005
Location: oscillating
Member Is Offline
Mood: informative
|
|
Well, whatever comes off the furnace. There is very little hydrogen in charcoal, and I don't have a steam feed, so it would have to be mainly
CO. The red and orange in the picture is mostly due to tar content and the heat below.
Tim
|
|
|
Mr. Wizard
International Hazard
Posts: 1042
Registered: 30-3-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Water gas is the same as 'Producer Gas'. It was the gas made by the urban gas companies in the late 19th and early 20th century; the
"Gas Works". It was made by by running steam H2O through red hot coke C. The reaction was not exothermic, so they had to either alternate
air and steam to keep the coke red hot, or mix a little air with the steam to keep the coke hot. The air mix led to extra nitrogen in the gas, and a
lower BTU content, but it could be run continuously. They would store the gas in big floating top tanks for daily use, and replenish them after peak
use. The gas was dirty and poisonous. The CO content was the cause of the toxicity. You still see references to people trying suicide with gas by
sticking their heads in an oven. Most municipal gas in the US today is Methane, or Natural Gas, sometimes with a slight mix of propane to adjust
it's BTU content. Pure LPG or Propane is another gas altogether, as I'm sure you all know.
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5102
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Producer gas is not the same as water gas. One is derived from coke and steam, the other from coke and air. The two materials were often made on the
same sites and mixed. Only water gas gets used in the water gas shift reaction.
The "gas works" of the 19th and 20th C may also have got it's gas from destructive distillation of coal. The process was developed by a
bloke named Mr Towns, leading to the name Towns gas. Unfortunately, most people failed to notice the capital T and assumed that the name was due to
municipal ownership of the manufacturing plant. The product was full of tars etc and needed to be purified- these by-products became the raw materials
for the chemical industry, for example the "coal tar dyes". It also meant that gas works stank.
All of these industries (and the manufacture of coke for steelmaking) were allied to one-another and were often done on the same site.
|
|
|
Mr. Wizard
International Hazard
Posts: 1042
Registered: 30-3-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
You are right. The water gas does not have any nitrogen in it, whereas the producer gas does, due to using air.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
