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Quince
National Hazard
Posts: 773
Registered: 31-1-2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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A propane burner doesn't classify as a FAE.
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
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Mood: .
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I remembered something my general chem proff once said right after doing a KClO3/Sugar +sulfuric demo; "Don't ever try this at home, if you
were to order chlorates the police would show up and you would be thought to be a terrorist, we can only do this here because as a university we are
the only ones which can carry out the reaction safely and in a controlled way, and we can keep stringent controls on who uses the chemicals."
Chem Nazi....
Surprisingly, I would have thought as a university they would have pure K-chlorate, but the flame colour indicated strong sodium contamination.
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Dr.Freemanstein
Hazard to Self
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Registered: 2-7-2005
Location: Cornwall, England
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I whole heartedly agree...
when I hear what my step-son says about his science lessons now, makes me cringe!!
We got to do some great experimental stuff, but now (only 8-10years on!) if they are allowed to do anything remotely dangerous, its gotta be done in
like a air-tight, bio-controlled, strike-hard nuclear bunker before the govenors will allow it to be performed! When we were at school, they were
dropping re-active metals into all sorts of stuff to show us how much of a Bang they make!!!
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triphenylphosphineoxide
Harmless
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Registered: 18-5-2006
Location: East Aus
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Last year most of my fellow Chemistry grad students worked for a Science and Technology centre, taking science "shows" to primary schools, we also ran
shows for a few early secondary schools. The shows we offered were hydraulics, electricity, and chemistry.
Almost 90% (18/21) of the primary schools in the local area asked for the hydraulics demonstration. This demonstarion was the safest, but also the
cheapest and the one with the least need for us.
The electricity show was only ordered by the secondary schools, and shockingly(sorry ) none of these schools had a working Van de Graff Generator, Hiring us fitted better with budget constraints than getting the damned thing fixed. A
result of some strange 80:20 guideline ie 80% of department funding should go on staff, 20% on infrastructure or consumables. This is not a law just a
guideline, but still it's killing music departments, and crippling science at secondary levels.
The real tradgedy was the chemistry show only 2 local primary schools ordered it(both private), and one distant public school. the schools that
ordered this one were amazing. The teachers were enthusiastic and wanted to expose their students to aspects of science that primary schools just
can't offer. These teachers had also taken it upon themselves to teach some of the theory behind our experiments prior to our arrival.(Grade 3 and 4
or 8/9 year olds learning redox chem.) This show was loved. Each time we stayed an extra two hours playing showing what can be done with chemicals we
could find in the staff room/art room/garden etc. the kids loved it.
The tragedy being that all the other schools missed out, as they could only afford one or for nonsensical reasons like "Isn't that a bit dangerous?"
or "They're only children it's a bit over their heads"
From this limited sample it seems clear that chemical education is suffering more than most, but safety regulations themselves play only a small part
in this. Fear of danger is more crippling. Lack of finances, bizarre financial priorities, Chemically ignorant teachers, and a persistant desire to
underestimate a child's intelligence are just as detrimental.
I almost feel sorry for the students we interacted with, as they will not meet chemistry like this again untill post compulsory education( over the
age of 16), unless they become home experimenters.
i'll stop now but I could keep up this rant for another 3 hours minimum.
[Edited on 16-6-2006 by triphenylphosphineoxide]
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vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
Posts: 3330
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
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Just look at the positive side. Knowledge truly is power.
Every day the people around you get dumber, is a day that you get smarter and that gains you more power.
Ofcourse, knowledge of how to deal with this power is important, as dumb masses can still instigate powerful witchhunts. You can't outthink an angry
mob.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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Quince
National Hazard
Posts: 773
Registered: 31-1-2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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On a related topic, according to an influential US political economist, basic science should be regulated by government (outside federal grant
programs as well): http://www.sais-jhu.edu/Faculty/fukuyama/articles/pi.pdf
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
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Registered: 18-11-2003
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Quince, I am not going to say I read the entire thing, I was nauseous before the fifth page.
Anyone who says that religion and politics should regulate science is a crackpot
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Quince
National Hazard
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Hehe, he was on the bioethics committee advising Bush until 2005. I'm sure many of his cronies remain. These are the people affecting US policy on
science.
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
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Location: France
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Well maybe we scientists are partly self to blame. In Belgium there are nearly zero scientists in parliament. All is full with economics masters,
communication sciences (blegh, kinda the dumpster faculty if you know what I mean) and ofcourse celebs or sportsmen/women.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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simply RED
Hazard to Others
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Registered: 18-8-2005
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I was thinking on this for years and now I realise, the things are prety simple :
During the cold war we were needed to make nukes, etc... now when the cold war is over... you know what the situation is.
And the "crackdown" in science started far before 2001.
Everything is becoming private! The worse is the place in the 3rd world. Corporations sell their goods here, but they do not hire people from here (in
science sectors) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead...
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
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Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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a recent US newspaper editorial:
"Society suffers from lack of chemistry sets
Kudos to The Dispatch for Tuesday’s editorial "Wonder deficit." It was right on target.
I was a member of that generation for whom a chemistry set was a portal to adventure. In fact, for more than half of my Christmases, Santa left either
a chemistry set or an Erector set under our tree, much to my joy.
As a teen, the interest that grew from those sets led to setting up a larger lab at home. And yes, in retrospect, and now as a parent, the image of a
kid making bromine, chlorine and hydrogen in his bedroom seems problematic.
But I did survive, and those experiments fueled my long-standing love of science. And in truth, the level of risk some of those activities required
forced a sense of caution and responsibility that probably exceeded my age. While these are definitely different – and riskier – times than those
of my childhood, we ought to worry a bit about what we have lost in our zealousness for absolute safety. EARLE M. HOLLAND Assistant vice president for
research communications Ohio State University Columbus"
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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franklyn
International Hazard
Posts: 3026
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
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| Quote: | Originally posted by sparkgap
Is chemical education being cramped by current safety regulations? |
IT'S NOT BEING CRAMPED IT HAS BEEN KILLED , NOT JUST DEAD ,
IT"S GOOD AND DEAD , AND WON'T BE COMING BACK IN OUR LIFETIMES.
I'M THE POSTER CHILD OF IT'S EFFICACY.
| Quote: | Originally posted by cyclonite4
( quote ) - Some call Dihydrogen Monoxide the "Invisible Killer"
dihydrogen monoxide should be Banned |
Read the entry in Bretherick's , it's hair raising 
[Edited on 30-7-2006 by franklyn]
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franklyn
International Hazard
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A little nostalgia
Click the page of each article that appears to view the rest of it.
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/category/chemistry/
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/05/18/magic-tricks-for-t...
.
[Edited on 27-9-2006 by franklyn]
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not_important
International Hazard
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Registered: 21-7-2006
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| Quote: |
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/category/chemistry/
* The gas that makes you laugh.
* The crystal which eliminates the need for sleep.
* The dust that lets you lift a car.
* The weed that makes you feed.
* The liquid that gives you control of time and space.
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And they said the 1960s were full of dopers.
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