| Pages:
1
2
3 |
kclo4
National Hazard
Posts: 916
Registered: 11-12-2004
Location:
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Question on making CH3NO2?
Would this work for making CH3NO2?
If methyl chloride (CH3Cl) was to be added to potassium nitrite (KNO2) would it react and make CH3NO2 and KCl or would there be a different reaction?
|
|
|
ChemPhile
Harmless
Posts: 9
Registered: 1-11-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I donnt think so. i think you ll get this product, methyl nitrite ester, whose molecular formula is CH3ONO, not CH3NO2.
|
|
|
Borek
Unregistered
Posts: N/A
Registered: N/A
Member Is Offline
|
|
There will be no reaction at all IIRC.
[Edited on 14-5-2005 by Borek]
|
|
|
Marvin
National Hazard
Posts: 995
Registered: 13-10-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Well, I dont see anything obvious to say it can't work.
Methyl chloride being a gas would introduce some problems, the reaction is going to be really slow even at high concentrations. This means doing the
experiment under pressure. You'll need a solvent that dissolves both the nitrite and the methyl chloride, the classic DMSO should potentially
work. You'll want to switch to sodium nitrite for solubility reasons I think. You will also need something to destroy nitrites as they are
formed, but in such a way as your container doesnt explode.
If the plan was just to bubble the gas through something and say 'tada nitromethane' you'll be very dissapointed, but in principle it
can be done I think.
|
|
|
kclo4
National Hazard
Posts: 916
Registered: 11-12-2004
Location:
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Would ammonium hydroxide work? The reaction would be CH3Cl + NH4OH = CH3NH2 +H2O + HCl since it makes HCl it would then react with the CH3NH2 and make
CH3Cl and NH3Cl
Were did the other post go that says CH3Cl + NH4 compound would work in solution
[Edited on 14-5-2005 by kclo4]
|
|
|
cyclonite4
Hazard to Others
Posts: 480
Registered: 16-11-2004
Location: is unknown
Member Is Offline
Mood: Amphoteric
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by kclo4
Would ammonium hydroxide work? The reaction would be CH3Cl + NH4OH = CH3NH2 +H2O + HCl since it makes HCl it would then react with the CH3NH2 and make
CH3Cl and NH3Cl |
CH3NH2 is methanamine, not nitromethane. And that reaction would be more correctly:
CH3Cl + NH3 ----> CH3NH2 + HCl
Generalised:
Haloalkane + Ammonia ----> Amine + Hydrogen Halide
EDIT: Spelling
-and-
If an acid were to react with an amine, it would form an amine salt, e.g.
CH3NH2 + HCl <---> CH3NH3+Cl-
[Edited on 14-5-2005 by cyclonite4]
\"It is dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.\" - Voltaire
|
|
|
kclo4
National Hazard
Posts: 916
Registered: 11-12-2004
Location:
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
CH03NH2 can be oxidized by H2O2 to make CH3NO2
[Edited on 14-5-2005 by kclo4]
|
|
|
kclo4
National Hazard
Posts: 916
Registered: 11-12-2004
Location:
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Could this reaction work and if not why not?
CH4OH + NH4Cl = CH3NH2 + HCl + H2O
|
|
|
12AX7
Post Harlot
Posts: 4803
Registered: 8-3-2005
Location: oscillating
Member Is Offline
Mood: informative
|
|
I would suspect not as ammonium is a stable ion and would prefer the Cl, unless you can get the methylamine/methlammonium to precipitate, or
something.
Tim
|
|
|
sparkgap
International Hazard
Posts: 1234
Registered: 16-1-2005
Location: not where you think
Member Is Offline
Mood: chaotropic
|
|
I see no reason for ammonium ion to readily cleave a nice and stable C-O bond.
That, and -OH is a poor leaving group.
sparky (~_~)
"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
|
|
|
froot
Hazard to Others
Posts: 347
Registered: 23-10-2003
Location: South Africa
Member Is Offline
Mood: refluxed
|
|
I made CH3NO2 by dissolving about 20g NaNO2 (I'm sure KNO2 would work) in a mixture of 100ml methanol and 100ml water, and then adding 100ml 50%
H2SO4 dropwise from a sep funnel. the gas that bubbles off is CH3NO2. The reaction is immediate being why I add the acid slowly.
The amounts mentioned are not accurately worked out, just a thumbsuck which worked fine in this case.
We salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
Of necessity, this honor is generally bestowed posthumously. - www.darwinawards.com |
|
|
chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
|
|
froot, you realise you made methylnitrite CH3ONO, and not nitromethane CH3NO2?
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
|
|
|
Blind Angel
National Hazard
Posts: 845
Registered: 24-11-2002
Location: Québec
Member Is Offline
Mood: Meh!
|
|
the Niromethane method on syntethikal use a two step method very similar:
MeOH + H2SO4 -> MeHSO4
MeHSO4 + NaNO2 -> MeNO2
(very big picture)
It might be possible to make it one pot?
/}/_//|//) /-\\/|//¬/=/_
My PGP Key Fingerprint: D4EA A609 55E4 7ADD 8529 359D D6E2 33F6 4C76 78ED |
|
|
froot
Hazard to Others
Posts: 347
Registered: 23-10-2003
Location: South Africa
Member Is Offline
Mood: refluxed
|
|
OOOPS!! 
And here I was thinking that nitromethane was CH3ONO2. Sorry Chemoleo
We salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
Of necessity, this honor is generally bestowed posthumously. - www.darwinawards.com |
|
|
alchemie
Harmless
Posts: 36
Registered: 4-6-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: variational
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Blind Angel
the Niromethane method on syntethikal use a two step method very similar:
MeOH + H2SO4 -> MeHSO4
MeHSO4 + NaNO2 -> MeNO2
(very big picture)
It might be possible to make it one pot? |
Actually there are very important differences between the two methods.
The method you are refering to consists in the solventless reaction between NaSO4CH3 and NaNO2. Wich yields nitromethane. This is
different from the method root used, in wich H2SO4 is added to an aqueous solution of NaNO2 and methanol. This yields methyl
nitrite.
This reaction:
MeOH + H2SO4 -> MeHSO4 + H2O
needs anhydrous conditions and would never occur in an aqueous solution. Actually, forming the methyl sulphuric acid is accomplished in methanol
solution, with the aid a drying agent, like Na2SO4, to remove the water formed in the esterification of the acid.
The second step, formation of nitromethane from NaMeSO4 and NaNO2, also has to be done with exclusion of water, for the same reasons: hydrolysis of
the sulphuric ester.
The reaction between NaMeSO4 and NaNO2 needs relatively high temperatures, wich requires heating the intimately mixed solid reagents. These reasons
preclude the use of a solvent, making the one pot impossible.
|
|
|
S.C. Wack
bibliomaster
Posts: 2419
Registered: 7-5-2004
Location: Cornworld, Central USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enhanced
|
|
Not exactly.
Search WD.
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
It should be noted that methylsulfuric acid can be used as a chemical weapon...
EDIT: changed 'is a chemical weapon' to 'can be used as a chemical weapon'
[Edited on 22-5-2005 by rogue chemist]
|
|
|
Borek
Unregistered
Posts: N/A
Registered: N/A
Member Is Offline
|
|
What I don't get from the whole thread is:
nitrocompounds are derivatives of the nitric acid, yet you want to prepare nitromethane from nitrite, not nitrate.
How come?
Smarkotan oz gluthozmaz
[Edited on 25-5-2005 by Borek]
|
|
|
Blind Angel
National Hazard
Posts: 845
Registered: 24-11-2002
Location: Québec
Member Is Offline
Mood: Meh!
|
|
Nitromethane is MeNO2
MeNO3 (the one prepared with nitrate) is Methyl Nitrate
/}/_//|//) /-\\/|//¬/=/_
My PGP Key Fingerprint: D4EA A609 55E4 7ADD 8529 359D D6E2 33F6 4C76 78ED |
|
|
Borek
Unregistered
Posts: N/A
Registered: N/A
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Blind Angel
Nitromethane is MeNO2
MeNO3 (the one prepared with nitrate) is Methyl Nitrate |
That's not what I am referring to. Methyl nitrate is an ester and that's something totally different.
Take nitrobenzene - to prepare it you use mixture of sulphuric and nitric acid. Why? Because you need N(V) from nitric acid. I would expect that to
produce nitromethane you need N(V) as well, not N(III).
|
|
|
kclo4
National Hazard
Posts: 916
Registered: 11-12-2004
Location:
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
How can you make NaSO4CH3 I goggled it and found three sites with no information on it, or how to make it?
|
|
|
Blind Angel
National Hazard
Posts: 845
Registered: 24-11-2002
Location: Québec
Member Is Offline
Mood: Meh!
|
|
Look on synthetikal, there is an easy and detailled work-up posted there.
/}/_//|//) /-\\/|//¬/=/_
My PGP Key Fingerprint: D4EA A609 55E4 7ADD 8529 359D D6E2 33F6 4C76 78ED |
|
|
tetrachloromethane
Harmless
Posts: 7
Registered: 27-6-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: trigger happy
|
|
It is made commercially by reacting nitric acid vapor and methane at 400C. If the two reactants were mixed and passed through a very hot borosilicate
tube, the resulting vapor could be condensed by a double jacket condenser. The only problem would be reaction rate. I'm not so good with chem
kinetics, so could someone with greater knowlege in this area speak up?
|
|
|
wertfun
Harmless
Posts: 24
Registered: 3-12-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I just ask how come sometimes nitromethane is MeNO2 and sometimes it is CH3NO2?
|
|
|
Douchermann
Hazard to Others
Posts: 117
Registered: 11-10-2005
Location: Illinois, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
They are the same thing, Me is an abbreviation for Methyl. Methyl is the CH3 group you see there. Would it be possible to produce nitromethane by
bubbling methane through nitric acid with a catalyst present? If so, what catalyst would be a good one.
It\'s better to be pissed off than to be pissed on.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
