Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Claviceps Paspali Fermentation Experiments
yogi
Harmless
*




Posts: 17
Registered: 21-12-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 1-9-2005 at 12:29
Claviceps Paspali Fermentation Experiments


hello. can some1 get a hold of the claviceps.paspali.html page from the old rhodium archive? its missing from the archives ive seen. would be nice if some1 could get the page and the photos...

thanks!
View user's profile View All Posts By User
solo
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 3871
Registered: 9-12-2002
Location: Estados Unidos de La Republica Mexicana
Member Is Offline

Mood: ....getting old and drowning in a sea of knowledge

[*] posted on 1-9-2005 at 16:14


I was only able to find this one in the Rhodium Pdf Archives, I hope it's of some assistance to your project........solo

http://rapidshare.de/files/4624190/claviceps.identification....


found some threads.....

https://www.synthetikal.com/hiveboard/tryptamine/000448301.h...

https://www.synthetikal.com/hiveboard/tryptamine/000450772.h...

https://www.synthetikal.com/hiveboard/tryptamine/000395211.h...

https://www.synthetikal.com/hiveboard/tryptamine/000452298.h...

[Edited on 2-9-2005 by solo]




It's better to die on your feet, than live on your knees....Emiliano Zapata.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
epck
Harmless
*




Posts: 27
Registered: 27-7-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: confused

[*] posted on 1-9-2005 at 16:36


Here's another one from the Erowid Rhodium archive.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
yogi
Harmless
*




Posts: 17
Registered: 21-12-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 2-9-2005 at 00:48


thanks for the replys, but i was refering tot he page where a fellow be fermented c.paspali f-240 strain (if i remember correctly) and showed pictures of the growth stages in a fermentor....

THANKS!
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Mush
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 602
Registered: 27-12-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 24-10-2010 at 13:55


Perhaps it is:

http://img835.imageshack.us/i/193994811post1711710257.jpg/
View user's profile View All Posts By User
madcedar
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 116
Registered: 10-9-2009
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 25-10-2010 at 06:12
Ergot Liquid Culture Part 1


The above post from Mush above are the pictures you want. You'll also want to read the following paper:



Attachment: Ergot Liquid Culture.part1.rar (1.4MB)
This file has been downloaded 1133 times
View user's profile View All Posts By User
madcedar
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 116
Registered: 10-9-2009
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 25-10-2010 at 06:14
Ergot Liquid Culture Part 2


Sorry, I had to split the file

Attachment: Ergot Liquid Culture.part2.rar (1.4MB)
This file has been downloaded 960 times

View user's profile View All Posts By User
madcedar
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 116
Registered: 10-9-2009
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 25-10-2010 at 06:21
Ergot Liquid Culture Part 3


And finally part 3. You'll need winrar to put the file together again. It's a pdf about isolating and growing a liquid culture of claviceps paspali. Success with this project would be greatly satisfying indeed. Good luck.

Attachment: Ergot Liquid Culture.part3.rar (621kB)
This file has been downloaded 868 times

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Mush
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 602
Registered: 27-12-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 26-10-2010 at 14:11


It's a great reference.:D Thanx for it!
View user's profile View All Posts By User
peach
Bon Vivant
*****




Posts: 1428
Registered: 14-11-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-10-2010 at 13:25


There are absolutely TONS of journal entries regarding the culturing of ergot.

One point I have noted, which is worth paying some attention to, is that they are using specifically selected strains of ergot, as a number of them produce next to zero lysergides. Also, the production drifts if the culture is cloned too far from the master plate.




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Rogeryermaw
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 656
Registered: 18-8-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-10-2010 at 21:15


something else worth noting about the production of ergot strains: extreme care must be taken not to allow any spore to escape your working environment. such a breach could be devastating to local grain production and a health and environmental hazard. it's not quite like growin' 'shrooms. ergot is dangerous.



View user's profile View All Posts By User
peach
Bon Vivant
*****




Posts: 1428
Registered: 14-11-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 29-10-2010 at 01:29


The gangrene effect, I believe is caused by vasoconstriction, from the lysergides in there. Which hopefully means it's temporary and not some kind of fungal infection.

But I hadn't even thought about the first point. Farmers do have a problem with ergot. It spreads around the crops as they wave about in the wind and that can't go out for consumption. One method of removing it is to get out there, on foot and chop down the infected areas by hand. That can't be much fun when you're used to using harvesters with 12ft spans on them for acres and acres.

I wonder if they could find it easier in the dark by shining a UV lamp over the crops and using something that can see very tiny lights better, like camera for a telescope. Maybe the ears would be just visible as glowing specs on the strands. That'd only work if the strain contained lysergides, which some of them don't.

They can also remove it as the grains go through the conveyors. The ears of grain are knocked off and carried away, which can also help knock the ears of ergot into a separate bin, since the grains of crop are a known size and can be screened.

Sandoz published some interesting papers on ergot culturing in the wild. They had big fields that looked like something out of a Sci-Fi film with huge overhead booms on tracks, which moved up and down the fields spraying them with inoculant.

Another method they tried was to mix the 'honey dew' that drips out of the ears of ergot with a little sugar. Then they made things out of planks of wood that go on your hands, with lots of pins sticking through the other side. The idea was to wet some of the mixture onto the boards, then get out on foot and simply 'slap' the ears of crop between the boards. The pins would puncture the grains and inject the spores from the dew. Works as well as the overhead booms from what I remember.

I have only heard one mention of someone ever doing this outside of a lab or for a paper, and that was someone saying something about inoculating rye with it and then burying the jars - and that it was the rainbow group of hippies doing this. I asked if they had any details on that, no response. I am willing to believe it's possible, but am skeptical. If it was that easy, it'd be all over the shroomery; there's a constant stream of ergot questions on there.

[Edited on 29-10-2010 by peach]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Random
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1018
Registered: 7-5-2010
Location: In ur closet
Member Is Offline

Mood: Energetic

[*] posted on 29-10-2010 at 05:12


Is culturing ergot illegal?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
peach
Bon Vivant
*****




Posts: 1428
Registered: 14-11-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 29-10-2010 at 13:21


I believe it would be in a number of places - it's akin to growing psilocybe mushrooms, the spores aren't illegal, but the mushrooms are, as they contain an illegal drug. Particularly if you have no real knowledge of the organism or interest in anything else it or the products can do, beyond LSD.

For instance, if you were culturing just a plate of it to see it and were interested in all kinds of fungi, and had them growing, I doubt a judge would be that bothered. Technically, that looks like you are getting ready to supply a drug, but realistically, a plate will do nothing.

If you were brewing bins full of it for 'no real reason', they'd be bothered.

[Edited on 29-10-2010 by peach]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
zed
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2273
Registered: 6-9-2008
Location: Great State of Jefferson, City of Portland
Member Is Offline

Mood: Semi-repentant Sith Lord

[*] posted on 5-11-2010 at 01:43


So, those of you out there, that have adapted your swimming pools (or Jacuzzis) for Ergot culture, be forewarned. Especially those of you, that have Olympic Size pools.

If you are taken before a judge, you had better have a very plausible excuse.

"I was fermenting rye for whiskey, but something went terribly wrong" ????

"Sorry, I just got back from Antarctica, musta been them sub-letters."

"Sorry, I'm just the gardener, I know the pool has been stinking, but it's not my responsibility." "Call George Bush down in Texas; It's his house."



View user's profile View All Posts By User
gravityzero
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 79
Registered: 14-6-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: forgetful

[*] posted on 18-7-2013 at 18:11


Quote: Originally posted by peach  
The gangrene effect, I believe is caused by vasoconstriction, from the lysergides in there. Which hopefully means it's temporary and not some kind of fungal infection.

But I hadn't even thought about the first point. Farmers do have a problem with ergot. It spreads around the crops as they wave about in the wind and that can't go out for consumption. One method of removing it is to get out there, on foot and chop down the infected areas by hand. That can't be much fun when you're used to using harvesters with 12ft spans on them for acres and acres.

I wonder if they could find it easier in the dark by shining a UV lamp over the crops and using something that can see very tiny lights better, like camera for a telescope. Maybe the ears would be just visible as glowing specs on the strands. That'd only work if the strain contained lysergides, which some of them don't.

They can also remove it as the grains go through the conveyors. The ears of grain are knocked off and carried away, which can also help knock the ears of ergot into a separate bin, since the grains of crop are a known size and can be screened.

Sandoz published some interesting papers on ergot culturing in the wild. They had big fields that looked like something out of a Sci-Fi film with huge overhead booms on tracks, which moved up and down the fields spraying them with inoculant.

Another method they tried was to mix the 'honey dew' that drips out of the ears of ergot with a little sugar. Then they made things out of planks of wood that go on your hands, with lots of pins sticking through the other side. The idea was to wet some of the mixture onto the boards, then get out on foot and simply 'slap' the ears of crop between the boards. The pins would puncture the grains and inject the spores from the dew. Works as well as the overhead booms from what I remember.

I have only heard one mention of someone ever doing this outside of a lab or for a paper, and that was someone saying something about inoculating rye with it and then burying the jars - and that it was the rainbow group of hippies doing this. I asked if they had any details on that, no response. I am willing to believe it's possible, but am skeptical. If it was that easy, it'd be all over the shroomery; there's a constant stream of ergot questions on there.

[Edited on 29-10-2010 by peach]



I hate to dig up an old article, but I did have something to add to this discussion. It would appear that as the story goes, there are many new variations to the factor. The 3 part paper contained on this thread seems to be on the right trail. It appears that the best way to go about new production methods is to use a good alkaloid producing strain of c. paspilla and not c. purpurea. This is from what I've found and I also hear of a sleepy grass of KY having the goods as well. I once found a good article on a well known forum talking of Pyobp peptide coupling and from what I gather that is the route to go.

I seriously hear of methods that require no chromatography and I won't say my sources, but from what I can tell must be legit.

So back to c. paspilla and why it is the route to go. Apparently it can be done in such a manner as to not cause gangrene or vasoconstriction. Don't ask me how, I know not the details, but rather where to get them. Any who, think of the possibilities if that information where true?!? One could take a visit to other popular mytocologicaly inclined forums and be well on their way.

There is particular agar that allows for good timing of the process and allows for one to transfer onto substrate. This allows for a pleasant amount of alkaloid production, privately and somewhat safe conditions; adverse to previous discussions.

There are methods for timing transfers and for extraction of alkaloids without conventional solvents that move towards a pure and clean extraction of specific alkaloids. Then I believe the hydrolysis or peptide coupling would commence. Again I have gathered numerous bits and pieces over quite a few hours of research on both this and other websites.

I do not post often, but I aim to assist in information I believe to be ordained by God creator. I believe this substance has life changing attributes. I also know in my heart there are much eaiser methods than are currently listed on your average forum.

I have been in the trenches to a degree and found places that leave me scratching my head, like, did that just happen? It appears on its face to be tantamount to making moonshine and knowing a bit of mycology and basic chemistry. I am convinced of it. Now I'm not gonna make claims like it is baking a cake, but it does not take an elaborate education to pull off either.

BTW the Pyobp coupling discussion I found soon disappeared from the forum I found it on. I had to locate it on the way back machine. I did retrieve it and would be glad to share.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
solo
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 3871
Registered: 9-12-2002
Location: Estados Unidos de La Republica Mexicana
Member Is Offline

Mood: ....getting old and drowning in a sea of knowledge

[*] posted on 18-7-2013 at 21:36


......please share,....solo



It's better to die on your feet, than live on your knees....Emiliano Zapata.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
PickledPackratParalysis
Harmless
*




Posts: 27
Registered: 11-6-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-7-2013 at 09:27


I don't know how to open a *.rar file... But I have heard of ergot before in the edible wild plants books. Apparently it's toxic!
View user's profile View All Posts By User
bfesser
Resident Wikipedian
*****




Posts: 2114
Registered: 29-1-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-7-2013 at 09:48


<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot" target="_blank">Ergot</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> is often discussed in relation to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide" target="_blank">LSD</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> synthesis.
If you're on Windows, try <a href="http://www.rarlab.com/">WinRar</a> <img src="../scipics/_ext.png" /> (link to the official site).




View user's profile View All Posts By User
gravityzero
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 79
Registered: 14-6-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: forgetful

[*] posted on 19-7-2013 at 10:54


That is the turning point of this whole discussion. I am at work at the moment, so I am unable to post the additional information that I have at the moment.

To assume Ergot is toxic is DEAD on the mark. I am not suggesting the consumption of ergot alkaloids in any respect.

The reason for my newly peeked interest on this subject is I have come to understand that c. paspali has properties that make it exceedingly eaiser to cultivate safely. From the information I have found, and I'm not sure if it is strain specific. Generally ergot alkaloid profiles change from strain to strain. In other words, just cause you find ergot in a field, does not mean that variety would have good alkaliod production.

Now it use to be you could toss on top of that the hazmat conditions that cultivation would take on top of that. Apparently you can have the best of both worlds. There are strains available and I know the connect, whereby good producing c. paspali can be cloned and maintained virtually anywhere, including ones domicile. It is becomming more and more like cubensis cultivation.

If one examines the real difficulty in production, they find that beyond the needed chemistry skill set, ergot alkaliods are very hard to source. It now appears that this difficulty will soon be over.

If you stood around and watched hoffman, back in the day. You probably would have been able to do similar things, after watching him repeatitively. Now a days you would have to do one better than that, mainly because of precursor availability. In other words, you need to be better than hoffman. The methods that appear to be comming to light, allow you to be back at the same starting point. I don't know that this would help the average person, but it could not hurt.

This information does not come cheap, but if I do decide to spring for it, I would definitely share. If someone has direct workings with c. paspali and knows this information to be incorrect as for safety goes, do share. I only aim for the truth. I am just convinced of the source of this information.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
bfesser
Resident Wikipedian
Thread Split
19-7-2013 at 13:17

  Go To Top