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Author: Subject: The best country to pursue amateur chemistry in.
itchyfruit
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[*] posted on 12-7-2009 at 16:41


I live in a small village in England and most people know i have a (lab) in my garden,i get called the mad professor(in actual fact i'm not mad and i'm certainly not a professor) and every now and again people say 'blown anything up recently' and stuff like that. But if they want a firework display i'm generally the one they ask to do it for them, our local witch (yes we have one) has recently asked me to do some stuff for her(green flash, dry ice etc)
The point i'm trying to make is that i'm very open with what i do and consequently it's accepted, i think if you hide what your doing people will think your up to something, it's up to us really to put peoples minds at rest and that should in turn keep the powers that be at bay!!

Also chemical and apparatus acquisition don't seem to be a problem i can get most things (except stupid Paris green :mad:)you may occasionally have to sign a 'end user declaration' but if your not making drugs or bombs that shouldn't be an issue.
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[*] posted on 1-1-2011 at 11:50


If you google 'anhydrous ammonia unapproved container' you will find that it is actually a crime in some states. While i realize that it would be uncommon for someone to put anhydrous ammonia in a thermos for a reason other than making meth, i still think it really oversteps the spirit of 'innocent until proven guilty'.

it really shows who is being protected and who is being cruelly punished when ELEMENTS like phosphorus and iodine and lithium require a permit to purchase and expose you to the risk of having your front door smashed in and a gun shoved in your face. Meanwhile pseudoephedrine is available in every drugstore. I think the best thing they could have done was make pseudoephedrine prescription only a long time ago, but that would have hurt corporate profits. Instead they are just going to make every other thing used in meth manufacture subject to investigation. which is going to really hurt science in the usa.

who knows, maybe the cures for AIDS and cancer would have been discovered by private researchers if chemistry as a hobby were promoted the way sports and cell phones are. but the reality that some of those chemists would probably make some drugs is considered too horrible to allow. i feel that is an incredibly foolish attitude. how many discoveries have been made by accident. if you increase the number of people doing research, simple mathematics will tell you that the number of discoveries and innovations will increase.



[Edited on 1-1-2011 by copandspeeder]
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[*] posted on 7-1-2011 at 14:07


Is Norway mentioned yet? ;)

I have my own company, accounts with Fisher Scientific, Sigma-Aldrich, Chiron AS and a school supplier, I got a permission from the local police station to purchase methanol... And I'm 18.
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[*] posted on 14-1-2011 at 06:10


I think Israel is quite good for this purpose.
I can go and buy various chemicals like concentrated acids, nitrates and a lot of other stuff (and I'm 17 year old).
And no body really cares what you are doing, unless it directly harms other people.
I once rode a bus with a few litters of acids, a few kg of glassware and a few kg of reagents, and nobody said a thing.
the bus driver even waited in patience while I unloaded a big cardboard box full of dangerous chemicals.
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[*] posted on 18-2-2011 at 15:04


I'm going with India!

Not only is everything, including chemicals and glassware, dirt cheap, but there aren't a whole lot of restrictions on anything that you can't get around. Plus, they speak English, and if people know you have a room full of chemicals and glassware, they'll consider you a respectable chemist, whereas in the US people think you're cooking meth.
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[*] posted on 13-5-2011 at 17:09


How about if the police come knocking we dont try and start explaining things - we try and get them to do the exprements themseves!

?

Timez
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jamit
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[*] posted on 13-5-2011 at 23:32


The United States is one of the best country to pursue amateur chemistry... there are other nations as well, but the US is on the top 3. And I'm Canadian and proud of it too!
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[*] posted on 21-5-2011 at 05:19


I'm really envious of you guys who can freely order chemicals D:
Where I live, the laws are extremely strict with regard to the purchase of reagents or sourcing for chemicals. For example, strong mineral acids such as nitric acid, sulfuric acid and hydrochloric acid are only permitted to be sold below 8% conc. Potassium/sodium/ammonium nitrate/chlorate/perchlorate/hydroxide/dichromate are all either banned or have other various regulations imposed on them. Just wondering, is anyone from Malaysia? How are the laws there?

D: I've been to the US once and the pharmacies are stocked with all sorts of chemicals D: but I couldn't fly them back... ugh
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[*] posted on 10-2-2013 at 14:27


Quote: Originally posted by theflickkk  
I'm really envious of you guys who can freely order chemicals D:
Where I live, the laws are extremely strict with regard to the purchase of reagents or sourcing for chemicals. For example, strong mineral acids such as nitric acid, sulfuric acid and hydrochloric acid are only permitted to be sold below 8% conc. Potassium/sodium/ammonium nitrate/chlorate/perchlorate/hydroxide/dichromate are all either banned or have other various regulations imposed on them. Just wondering, is anyone from Malaysia? How are the laws there?

D: I've been to the US once and the pharmacies are stocked with all sorts of chemicals D: but I couldn't fly them back... ugh


tho you might not read this: ive been talking with an actual malaysian.. he told me that they have DEATH PENALTY for making explosives, dont know in what amounts tho but i could imagine 1-100000000 grammes..
he also said that the police doesnt really care at holidays etc. where everybody have firecrackers, they let people have fun at such times, tho.
but malaysia isnt a good place, of what i understand.. (:




~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
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[*] posted on 10-2-2013 at 15:04


Australia:
i dont have much on australia, but i recall that ammonium nitrate is completely banned, somehow, and chemicals (the ones i heard about was pyrotechnic chems) are quite hard to come by..

Poland:
well.. this place along with others such as hungary shouldnt be very limited even when it comes to explosives as there doubtfully would be many terrorists having anything good of bombing a few trees and abit of grass :P
that means generally eastern european countries, i know Poland, Hungary, Serbia, Lithuana and also Malta should be great, money also count abit in these countries, not only most things are relatively cheap compared to wealthy countries such as scandinavia and usa

Germany:
i heard theyre much after the persons who makes explosives, like alot.. huge raids on them, not coming at them one at a time but rushing in on them all in a hour throughout whole germany, not a good choice for explosives i would say

Holland:
ive seen on a few sites that fireworks with as much as 5 grammes flashpowder are ''CE certified'' which counts for whole europe, and not 100% sure, but a guy i know told me and showed me some spinning firecrackers with 5 grammes flashpowder he bought commercially, but they have something called TFOVB which well basically goes on youtube, points out specific ''bomb-makers'' which isnt always going their way, also they state things like a cobra 6 (contains 26.5 - 28g flashpowder) has the force of a handgrenade tho theyre forgetting to say the deadly force of a handgrenade is the fragments (:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGXf-VTzLxU
''They are copying our videos without PERMISSION. THIS IS ILLEGAL!''

Belgium:
i can confirm that its possible to buy NaClO3 confirming fertilizers aswell as (KAS?) or perhaps even PURE ammonium nitrate with no problems

Denmark:
no. stay away, this isnt a good idea, very bad place if you decide to make explosives, as little as 10 grammes of explosive can be seen as an act of terrorism, or a case can be raised. skin colour affects this, strangely enough. NH4OH 25% HCl 30% acetone 100% toluene (not more?) methanol (100%?) NaOH 100% oxalic acid 100% H2SO4 (37%) HNO3 (only allowed as little as 8% i think?) are possible to buy, except for nitric acid, for some reason, or well lets say you can sometimes be lucky to find some.. perhaps.. unlikely..
bad country for chemistry in general.

Finland:
im not very sure, but i believe their gun control is quite loose, so their control about explosives shouldnt be that serious (when compared to very serious countries as denmark) a possibility if you can speak finnish.

England:
small firecrackers (0.5g?) can be bought for scaring away birds from farm places, so thats always some start, also i believe ive heard that as much as 0.5g firecrackers are legal to make. about chemicals im not very sure but theres several persons i know distributing chemicals and the stuff alike in the UK

Russia:
lets just take it that people in russia doesnt really care, or well compared to hysterical countries in europe.
a guy i talked with usually let off 500 grammes of ammonal in a urban place between the blocks on the grass, lots of times, so supposedly not that much hysteria.

Vietnam:
one of my favorites, but i havent gotten any of this approved.
i was told that you can order whatever you want home, but theres one thing they do control, and thats acids.. you basically just have to write on a piece of paper your name and what other information is needed, but fertilizers arent controlled, possibly due to they have no reason to fear terrorists?
sounds like a paradise for chemists, if it is true. bad about this would perhaps be not everybody in vietnam speaks english.. but they have an explosives forum, so it shouldnt be death penalty for creating explosives?

Malaysia:
Death penalty for explosives

so to conclude: if you live around europe, moving to eastern european parts might be the choice if you can get some money with you, or perhaps just further south.. basically away from north. (:

please confirm/deny/correct if you see some mistakes / misinformations :P

just abit extra: a serbian guy i talked to blew about 1.1 kg ammonal up at his neighbours tree (a huge tree) it wasnt blown into pieces, him and his friend went to tell him about it (the neighbour) and he did nothing else but just laughed abit, thats about the mentality in small villages in serbia about explosives, dont know if this counts for WHOLE serbia.. but this is the kind of community that would be great to have if you want to make explosives




~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
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[*] posted on 2-5-2013 at 12:48
Serbia


I saw someone mentioned Serbia and surrounding countries, and I would like to give some inside informations (well, this sounds awful...insight is more appropriate).

Science in Serbia is neglected and very hard to practice, both professional and amateur. Economic situation is very difficult. But even if we had money, there are almost no chemicals and apparatus sellers in Serbia that are willing to trade with persons (companies only). Scarcity of chemicals is far greater than in western countries, and sharpening of laws is not becoming helpful at all... Past few years it has become impossible to buy 96% ethanol, hydrogen-peroxide above 12% (and that one emulsified), and any other clean chemical (including menthol :o ). HCl gets only as a yellow 8% solution, and I do not know when I last saw NaOH (used to be in color stores, or whatever You call them). Some say that You could buy sulphuric acid for car batteries, but I haven't seen it. Methanol, or any other organic solvent is a no-go. Nitric acid also. You can at least buy 80% acetic in every supermarket.

As for amateur chemistry, if You find a way to buy, "get", isolate, purify or synthesize pure chemicals, as long as You don't do anything utterly stupid and reckless (as blowing a pipe bomb in front of other people), You can easily pursue scientific satisfaction in gray area. I have been practicing it without single LE visit. Bureaucracy in Serbia is a flesh-soul-and-money-eating dinosaur, and any try of legalizing amateur research lab without some serious money involved (only for permissions and stuff) is "fart in a barrel"...

Bottom line - if You have knowledge and skills You can do amateur science in Serbia in gray area.

[Edited on 2-5-2013 by Acidum]

[Edited on 2-5-2013 by Acidum]




...and then I disappeared in the mist...
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[*] posted on 5-4-2015 at 00:31
CHINA!!!


I would say the best country to pursue amateur chemistry would be China. Glassware is about 5 times cheaper than America, chemical cost is virtually nonexistent. There is a amazon.com like online store website except less regulated. Anyone can register a shop there for a small fee. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of chemical shops, all owned by individual people. The amazing thing is, they all have phone numbers so if you want something that is not listed, just give them a call. They can tell you if they have it and is willing to send it to you. Because there are hundreds of seller, if one person doesn't have a reagent just ask another seller.
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[*] posted on 5-4-2015 at 05:53


Iran is also one of the best countries for amateur chemistry. But the downside is that since Iran is socialist/third world, its quite hard to find online chemistry shops, and to find a brick-and-mortar shop you'd have to window shop through tons of tiny mom-and-pop shops for a long time. Not very many online businesses or chains.
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[*] posted on 7-4-2015 at 08:05
Portugal


I don't know if Portugal has already been discussed here but I'll go ahead and state a few things.

Portugal is a small country that is in the middle of a crisis. Getting a research job is almost impossible. Getting a job, actually, is getting harder and harder. So, for money, Portugal isn't a good option.

However, I've been practicing chemistry quite freely. I can buy relatively pure 33% Hydrochloric Acid in most hardware stores for about 1,5€, 1L. I can buy 98% Sulfuric Acid in most hardware stores for about 3€, 1L. Sodium Hydroxide is easily bought everywhere because it is used as a drain cleaner. I can buy it as powder or solution, about 2€ for a Kilogram.

Some hardware stores also sell 60% Nitric Acid for 2,5€, 1L. Sulfur is easily available everywhere dirt cheap, however not pure (Flowers of Sulfur).

Acetone is available freely. Toluene and MEK may be extracted from certain paint thinners. Some stores sell Hexane and Xylene. I can even order 50% Hydrogen Peroxide at the incredible price of 1,5€, 1L.

This goes to say that general chemicals are freely available around here. Also, there aren't any laws regulating this kind of chemicals, which is very good.

Glassware isn't as easy to obtain. However, I know of at least two companies who deal with individuals with all kinds of glassware and chemicals. Also, no regulations here, at least that I am aware of.

If I can get a good job here, after leaving college I might actually stick around. Portugal might be a good choice for Amateur Chemistry. I only hope that it stays that way.
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Cou
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[*] posted on 7-4-2015 at 12:55


Quote: Originally posted by HgDinis25  
I don't know if Portugal has already been discussed here but I'll go ahead and state a few things.

Portugal is a small country that is in the middle of a crisis. Getting a research job is almost impossible. Getting a job, actually, is getting harder and harder. So, for money, Portugal isn't a good option.

However, I've been practicing chemistry quite freely. I can buy relatively pure 33% Hydrochloric Acid in most hardware stores for about 1,5€, 1L. I can buy 98% Sulfuric Acid in most hardware stores for about 3€, 1L. Sodium Hydroxide is easily bought everywhere because it is used as a drain cleaner. I can buy it as powder or solution, about 2€ for a Kilogram.

Some hardware stores also sell 60% Nitric Acid for 2,5€, 1L. Sulfur is easily available everywhere dirt cheap, however not pure (Flowers of Sulfur).

Acetone is available freely. Toluene and MEK may be extracted from certain paint thinners. Some stores sell Hexane and Xylene. I can even order 50% Hydrogen Peroxide at the incredible price of 1,5€, 1L.

This goes to say that general chemicals are freely available around here. Also, there aren't any laws regulating this kind of chemicals, which is very good.

Glassware isn't as easy to obtain. However, I know of at least two companies who deal with individuals with all kinds of glassware and chemicals. Also, no regulations here, at least that I am aware of.

If I can get a good job here, after leaving college I might actually stick around. Portugal might be a good choice for Amateur Chemistry. I only hope that it stays that way.
Everything you listed is also OTC in USA hardware stores such as lowes, except for maybe 98% sulfuric acid. Now, as for if buying acetone, HCl, and Nash at the same time will put you on a watch list, or at least get weird looks from the employees...
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HgDinis25
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[*] posted on 7-4-2015 at 13:06


60% Nitric Acid OTC in the USA? 50% Hydrogen Peroxide OTC in the USA? Are you serious?

[Edited on 7-4-2015 by HgDinis25]
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Cou
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[*] posted on 7-4-2015 at 13:32


Quote: Originally posted by HgDinis25  
60% Nitric Acid OTC in the USA? 50% Hydrogen Peroxide OTC in the USA? Are you serious?

[Edited on 7-4-2015 by HgDinis25]

Oh, I didn't see those in your post. Those are not available in the US either.
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HgDinis25
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[*] posted on 7-4-2015 at 13:36


Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
Quote: Originally posted by HgDinis25  
60% Nitric Acid OTC in the USA? 50% Hydrogen Peroxide OTC in the USA? Are you serious?

[Edited on 7-4-2015 by HgDinis25]

Oh, I didn't see those in your post. Those are not available in the US either.


I can continue with some even more interesting chemicals (that I have never bought). Like Sodium Cyanide sold in kilogram bags...
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[*] posted on 7-4-2015 at 13:41


Quote: Originally posted by HgDinis25  

I can continue with some even more interesting chemicals (that I have never bought). Like Sodium Cyanide sold in kilogram bags...


:o:o:o Portugal sounds like an amateur chemists heaven. By far the best country yet for chemicals and the freedom to experiment.

But I think the USA is tops for getting glassware and other non-chemical supplies as we have a huge and responsive industrial base.

[Edited on 7-4-2015 by Magpie]




The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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[*] posted on 7-4-2015 at 14:15


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Quote: Originally posted by HgDinis25  

I can continue with some even more interesting chemicals (that I have never bought). Like Sodium Cyanide sold in kilogram bags...


:o:o:o Portugal sounds like an amateur chemists heaven. By far the best country yet for chemicals and the freedom to experiment.

But I think the USA is tops for getting glassware and other non-chemical supplies as we have a huge and responsive industrial base.

[Edited on 7-4-2015 by Magpie]


True, indeed. Actually, a nice set of scientists/researchers graduates every year in our universities. Unfortunately, most of them go look for a job abroad because of our country's crisis.
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[*] posted on 7-4-2015 at 15:16


I am remembering now that most of the former Soviet bloc countries in East Europe are also good places to get chemicals. I'm not sure about their freedom to experiment, however.



The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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[*] posted on 7-4-2015 at 15:18


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
I am remembering now that most of the former Soviet bloc countries in East Europe are also good places to get chemicals. I'm not sure about their freedom to experiment, however.

So, second world and third world countries.
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[*] posted on 7-4-2015 at 21:34


HgDinis25, could you provide some photographic proof of the OTC 60% nitric acid, 50% hydrogen peroxide, and kilo sodium cyanide bags? I'm not trying to say you're a liar or anything, that just sounds like an incredible sight to say the least. Please tell us more :).



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[*] posted on 7-4-2015 at 22:25


Cyanide doesn't surprise me. Other than state laws, I believe the only federal regulations in the US are due to mining and pollution. I don't believe that has changed, but regulations in other areas have clearly become more severe. Since the I see energetics mentioned frequently, I remember that one used to be able to purchase them over the counter with a simple ID in many regions in the US.
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[*] posted on 8-4-2015 at 04:02


Quote: Originally posted by APO  
HgDinis25, could you provide some photographic proof of the OTC 60% nitric acid, 50% hydrogen peroxide, and kilo sodium cyanide bags? I'm not trying to say you're a liar or anything, that just sounds like an incredible sight to say the least. Please tell us more :).


Of course! However, I've never bought Sodium Cyanide (I think you just gave me an excuse to spend the money and buy it :D). For the others, in about two hours I'll put the photos here.

While we wait, what do you wish to know more? If you want to know about more OTC chemicals just ask away...


EDIT

The photos are here.

Hydrogen Peroxide 50%
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bvri546no9wy57z/SAM_0841.JPG?dl=0

Nitric Acid 60%
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6xzyku755vv9tsc/SAM_0843.JPG?dl=0

The bottle is mine as is the label. For further proof, my syntheis of Nitrocellulose (with said acid) and a video of it burning: :D
https://hobbychemistry.wordpress.com/2015/04/03/synthesis-of...

And an extra, Glacial Acetic Acid, 2€, 1L:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7qiymnf2rr2rqke/SAM_0844.JPG?dl=0

[Edited on 8-4-2015 by HgDinis25]

[Edited on 8-4-2015 by HgDinis25]
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