Hermes_Trismegistus
National Hazard
Posts: 602
Registered: 27-11-2003
Location: Greece, Ancient
Member Is Offline
Mood: conformation:ga
|
|
methylene chloride alert!
Some months ago I purchased three litres of methylene chloride from a quebec chemical supplier. It was supplied in polyethylene bottles.
It was stored for several months and when retrieved the bottles were found to be empty. I mean dead empty.
I mean bone fricking dry!!!
Research showed that methylene chloride is permeable to P.E.
I may have breathed in three litres of a potent mutagen, carcinogen, and toxin.
I am not well pleased.
I offer this word to the wise...
If you store halogenated or aromatic hydrocarbons in plastic bottles, you may wish to do so out of doors.
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
|
|
|
denatured
Hazard to Others
Posts: 151
Registered: 7-8-2004
Location: -
Member Is Offline
Mood: HCl 50%?
|
|
Where have you been saving them?
How a supplier would keep it in his place without losing his supplies as you lost them?
When you bought it ... did he packaged it while you are there or it was already packaged?
I think there are a lot of compounds permeable through glass , pe at a higher temperatures...
Anyway i hope you make it if you really breathed that quantity !!! Thanks for the warning
|
|
|
Hermes_Trismegistus
National Hazard
Posts: 602
Registered: 27-11-2003
Location: Greece, Ancient
Member Is Offline
Mood: conformation:ga
|
|
1. I stored them on a shelf in my apartment, and am very concerned about my health and future well-being.
2. I ordered them mail-order and do not know how they are packaged at her premises.
3. Thank you for your well-wishes.
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
|
|
|
Darkblade48
Hazard to Others
Posts: 411
Registered: 27-3-2005
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Ouch, that's quite eyebrow-raising, I certainly hope that there will be no serious long term effects.
Maybe the company had them in large glass containers and thought that they could save by shipping the methylene chloride to you in PE containers?
I'm curious if HDPE containers would have the same problem?
|
|
|
Mr. Wizard
International Hazard
Posts: 1042
Registered: 30-3-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Sorry to hear of your exposure. Another problem is leaking alkyl halides exposed to flames and combustion inside a building leading to exposure of
phosgene and HCl  This can cause long term lung problems. This can even happen with
Freon. There is a cheap and dirty test using a colorless blue flame issuing from a copper, or brass pipe. Any chlorine compound, and perhaps other
halides will give a green color to the flame. It was used years ago to look for freon leaks. Does anyone know if the test works for other halides?
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5102
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
"Beilsteins test" IIRC. Doesn't work for fluorides.
|
|
|
Kinetic
Harmless
Posts: 45
Registered: 31-12-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: fine
|
|
Beilstein test
[edit: unionised, your memory serves you correctly]
Mr . Wizard, the test you're talking about is called the Beilstein test. It is highly sensitive and can be used to detect organohalide compounds,
except for organofluorides. Chlorides, bromides and iodides are said to impart different colours to the flame; see the pictures here: http://ull.chemistry.uakron.edu/organic_lab/beil/.
Hermes: 'I may have breathed in three litres of a potent mutagen, carcinogen, and toxin'
I wouldn't worry - for a start, it will not help in the slightest. DCM is not a potent mutagen, carcinogen or toxin. It is considered only a
potential carcinogen even after chronic exposure. Surely you would have noticed the effects of the acute exposure first, such as nausea and
headache. A pragmatic approach would be to look at this as a lesson: you cannot change the past, just do not let it happen again.
|
|
|
FrankRizzo
Hazard to Others
Posts: 202
Registered: 9-2-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
How did you not smell it?
|
|
|
IrC
International Hazard
Posts: 2710
Registered: 7-3-2005
Location: Eureka
Member Is Offline
Mood: Discovering
|
|
You should store it in metal cans just like acetone is sold in, and the real danger is the formation of carbon monoxide in your bloodstream. I used to
buy 5 gallon metal cans of it in Phoenix all the time for depotting, and the heat makes that stuff build up so much pressure I always had to loosen
the lid slightly before I headed home with it. I kept it in the back with both back windows open over my monoxide fears. Learned my lesson about the
heat when my swelled can blew the lid in the air. Leaking very slowly you are not likely to smell anything and the fact that you are not dead yet
means don't worry about it. You survived it and like was mentioned it is not likely you will ever notice any further problems. I bet your bone
marrow got a hell of a workout, and you must be running on all new blood!
IIRC it also forms formaldehyde in your bloodstream, and this would be the carcinogen I would worry about. But as was also mentioned you suffered no
acute effects so your exposure was likely very small. The nausea and headaches are actually from the CO poisoning, which directly indicates both
exposure and formaldehyde formation, meaning the fact that you never noticed these symptoms should give you a clean bill of health. I was overexposed
to methylene chloride once doing depotting during the winter, with all the mentioned side effects (and worse) and the only thing that came out of it
was the first panic attacks about a chemical I ever encountered, and a long bout of chronic kidney pain I assume was due to formaldehyde. I actually
had to stop using that stuff as I would get the attacks of panic about it everytime I had any around. I have never used this solvent since. I wonder
if psychotic episodes is another symptom of poisoning by this chemical?
[Edited on 18-10-2005 by IrC]
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
The quebec suppliers I know of (I am 99% sure I know which one you are talking about) when dealing with barely legitimate compounds are not too
carefull with what it packages its liquids in, unfortunalty.
I hope the effects are minimal for you.(Can't be worse than your chlorform accident a while back )
|
|
|
bio2
Hazard to Others
Posts: 447
Registered: 15-1-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
.....I'm curious if HDPE containers would have the same problem?........
Yep, thick reagent bottle HDPE at that.
Recently got a shipment of chloroform in it and after a couple weeks I noticed the level was down a little. So tightened the cap and taped it. Sure
enough level kept dropping even in the fridge so into glass it went.
Around here many things are shipped in LLDPE or HDPE that shouldn't be stored for long in this plastic.
BTW certain chemicals are more compatible
with low density than high density PE or even HDPP.
Also different densities of either type are made. The difference is so extreme that benzene for example in HDPE at 50deg will dissolve one density
and not the other.
|
|
|
mick
Hazard to Others
Posts: 338
Registered: 3-10-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I think chloroform and dichloromethane have about the same level of smell as methanol and ethanol.
mick
You have to inhale a lot of chlorinated solvents before you smell them. Toluene, ethyl acetate, ethers are easy.
mick
[Edited on 6-11-2005 by mick]
|
|
|
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
You must be kidding , DCM has a light aromatic odor but irritating and
chloroform is very pungent heavy aromatic odor which absolutely reeks
and is powerfully irritating .
In comparison methanol and even moreso ethanol are virtually odorless when pure .
|
|
|
S.C. Wack
bibliomaster
Posts: 2419
Registered: 7-5-2004
Location: Cornworld, Central USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enhanced
|
|
Perhaps people smell chloroform differently, because I find it to be nonirritating, light, and sweet; quite similar to DCM but slightly stronger.
Kirk-Othmer gives an odor threshold of 205-310 ppm for CHCl3 and 300 ppm for CH2Cl2.
I've also tried HDPE for for chlorinated organics and for aromatics and it sucks.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
