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Author: Subject: Chemical Storage Containers
Fleaker
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[*] posted on 6-1-2006 at 17:04


No ground glass will not do it, it will escape right out. You can store it temporarily in a phenolic cap that's been sealed with hot paraffin, but a bakelite cap is best. I have a 500mL amber glass bakelite cap bottle that would suit you just fine.

Woelen, here's where to get small but outrageously expensive bottles (I doubt fisher will sell to you, so go through these people):

http://www.enasco.com/science/BrowseMinorIndex.do?majorIndex...

click reagent bottle, it has a solid teflon cap and pretty hefty walls, but only 100mL

Trust me though, they work very very (emphasis here) well holding iodine and bromine (7 months and it's still the same lvl). You can also keep the bromine in the freezer (it will freeze, 19F).

Oh, chromium, fyi, ampouling your own bromine, I strongly advise against it, it's fumes are very irritating and with a small spill on yourself, and you'll regret it for weeks (put a strong sodium thiosulfate solution on it immediately). I speak from experience here, bromine hurts. I suppose if you chilled it to 0*C or so, it might be tolerable, but at room temperature, bad idea.


Actually $35 for 250mL is a good deal. Since I've seen it at $145 for 500mL bottle or thereabouts on several occasions, you were not ripped off. Don't you think you bought a little much though? :-P
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mick
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[*] posted on 7-1-2006 at 16:34


I have stored 250 ml of Bromine for over 10 years, checked every year. The seal is PTFE covered silicone, the bromine is through the PTFE and is attacking the silicone rubber, but nothing serious.

mick
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Nick F
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[*] posted on 8-1-2006 at 04:17


It seems to me that the cheapest and easiest way to buy bromine, and the easiest way to store bromine, is as a bromide salt. Potassium bromide seems to go for about $10/kg, depending on the source, which is equivalent to over 200mL of bromine. Then you can easily produce bromine as and when it is needed by oxidation, assuming that you have a bit of quickfit glass.
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lacrima97
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[*] posted on 8-1-2006 at 08:29


I have finally collected 20 dr.pepper bottles, and my stoppers should be in soon. Only problem is I think I am going to have to live with the writing on them.
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ADP
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[*] posted on 8-1-2006 at 09:56


Perhaps acetone or something could remove this...? :D
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Darkblade48
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[*] posted on 8-1-2006 at 10:11


Quote:
Originally posted by ADP
Perhaps acetone or something could remove this...? :D

If the bottles are LDPE (as most pop bottles are), the acetone will mar the surface of the plastic, since LDPE doesn't stand up too well to acetone. HDPE, on the other hand, will not mar if you use acetone to rub off writing, sticky tape residue, etc.
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Lotek_
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[*] posted on 8-1-2006 at 12:40


he is useing some glass bottles with bizzare uber paint on them.
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woelen
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[*] posted on 8-1-2006 at 12:41


Quote:
Originally posted by Fleaker
No ground glass will not do it, it will escape right out. You can store it temporarily in a phenolic cap that's been sealed with hot paraffin, but a bakelite cap is best. I have a 500mL amber glass bakelite cap bottle that would suit you just fine.

Woelen, here's where to get small but outrageously expensive bottles (I doubt fisher will sell to you, so go through these people):

http://www.enasco.com/science/BrowseMinorIndex.do?majorIndex...

click reagent bottle, it has a solid teflon cap and pretty hefty walls, but only 100mL

Trust me though, they work very very (emphasis here) well holding iodine and bromine (7 months and it's still the same lvl). You can also keep the bromine in the freezer (it will freeze, 19F).

Thanks for the link. Very interesting bottles. Indeed a pity that they are so very expensive. That would cost me more on the bottles than on the bromine (I need three of these for one ampoule).

Quote:
Actually $35 for 250mL is a good deal. Since I've seen it at $145 for 500mL bottle or thereabouts on several occasions, you were not ripped off. Don't you think you bought a little much though? :-P

One of the ampoules is for my element collection (apparently, the bromine is ampouled in colorless glass), which makes a really beautiful large sample. The other is for experiments. Smaller ampoules were not available and asking the seller to open up such an ampoule is out of the question for me. As long as the bromine is in the ampoules, it is safe to transport.




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lacrima97
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[*] posted on 8-1-2006 at 12:44


Ha, I tried acetone AD, and the only thing I can think of to get the paint off is to dissolve the bottles...:-/, which would defeat the purpose of having them. The bottles are glass.

[Edited on 1/8/2006 by lacrima97]
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Fleaker
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[*] posted on 8-1-2006 at 17:42


Give the bottle an introduction to H2SO5 :-), that should remove anything organic on the outside of them, unless this is some sort of wierd metal oxide glaze put on the bottles?

[Edited on 9-1-2006 by Fleaker]
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neutrino
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[*] posted on 8-1-2006 at 17:59


Lining the cap of an ordinary glass bottle with a teflon disc will make it impervious to bromine vapors. Would something like this be applicable in your case? It is not so expensive or hard to do.
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Fleaker
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[*] posted on 9-1-2006 at 14:33


Neutrino, the amber glass bottle I had my bromine stored in had a PTFE-lined cap, but the vapors creeped around it and seriously messed up the phenolic cap (literally ate a hole right through) despite keeping it frozen! I wouldn't say impervious to it, but it will definitely make the cap last longer.


Nick F.: could you please post a source for that sodium bromide at $10/kg, or perhaps U2U me, I'm interested. TIA :)

[Edited on 9-1-2006 by Fleaker]
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[*] posted on 9-1-2006 at 15:53


Try using a polypropylene cap with good seals rather than a phenolic cap

mick
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woelen
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[*] posted on 20-1-2006 at 14:57


The two bottles of bromine arrived yesterday :). They are really cool samples of bromine. Also somewhat scary, to have such massive amounts of bromine around. I must not think of one of these bottles breaking. These samples of bromine are very old. They are from an old GDR (former Eastern Germany) lab, dated May 2th, 1971. I included some pictures of the huge bottle of bromine (its total weight, including the glass bottle is almost 900 grams!).

http://woelen.scheikunde.net/science/chem/pics/bromine.html

I have two of these large bottles of bromine now. I'll try to break one of these carefully at its head and want to remove almost all bromine, besides appr. 10 ml. Then I want to seal it again. Then I have two samples, one showing liquid bromine nicely, the other showing gaseous bromine much better. I have two little bottles now, with caps, with a teflon disk in it, but not totally teflon-covered. I'll try how these bottles stand up against bromine (I'll make a small quantity myself) and if they stand up against that well enough, then I'll open up one of these large ampoules of bromine.

Really cool to have this amount of Br2, it allows me to do many interesting experiments :D .

If someone has a suggestion for safely breaking the seal at the top, without shattering the entire bottle, then I would be pleased. In every case, before I open up such a bottle, I'll freeze it in a freezer at -18 C. If something goes wrong, then at least I do not have bromine flowing around everywhere (that would be a real disaster to my opinion :o).

[Edited on 20-1-06 by woelen]




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Esplosivo
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[*] posted on 20-1-2006 at 15:06


Of course it does! I envy you! That's some large quantity of bromine! Just to imagine all I ever head was approx. 25mL I produced from KBr :( Bromine is so expensive unfortunately. Being 'old' (not that anything could have happened to the sealed bromine!), you must have gotten it at a good price.

Edit: To open up the large 'ampoules' I would suggest one of those metal objects similar to a saw, which is used to cut the 'head' off an ampoulle. I've got a whole collection of them, together with hundreds of ampoulles of the 'old' age (adrenaline, etc...) which I collect.

[Edited on 20-1-2006 by Esplosivo]




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Rabidwolf
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[*] posted on 22-1-2006 at 19:01


use a file to make a small scratch at the height you want to break it at.
then using a red hot glass rod, touch the scratch.
a crack should form around the circumference of where the origonal scratch was made
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neutrino
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[*] posted on 22-1-2006 at 19:21


Vogel had a good section about this. I would upload the relevant text, but my copy of Vogel's 5th was accidentally deleted. Does anyone know where I might find a copy?
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Darkblade48
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[*] posted on 23-1-2006 at 05:10


Quote:
Originally posted by neutrino
Vogel had a good section about this. I would upload the relevant text, but my copy of Vogel's 5th was accidentally deleted. Does anyone know where I might find a copy?

I believe there's a copy floating around on axehandle's FTP in the books folder
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[*] posted on 23-1-2006 at 05:51


Our library;)



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Nick F
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[*] posted on 23-1-2006 at 09:23


Scary. I'm glad I don't have that much elemental bromine!

Very cool though :D.
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lacrima97
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[*] posted on 25-1-2006 at 16:20
YAY


The bottles I mentioned as having the irremovable paint, finally shed a little paint. I accidentally let a little H2SO4 spill on one, and the paint just smeared off.
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[*] posted on 25-1-2006 at 18:51


Methyl Ethyl Ketone does wonders too.. Dissolves polyvinyl chloride among other things..
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[*] posted on 1-2-2006 at 00:16


Some of the fear you have in storing certain chemicals can be undestand...but soon someone here will say "I would like to store my chemicals in a space shuttle, with no gravity, so that it will not touch anything!" :o
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[*] posted on 1-2-2006 at 00:43


www.cynmar.com has some 4/8/16/33 oz narrow mouthed plastic safety coated 1000ml amber bottles with PTFE lined screw caps for $6.70 or so.

You won't find them on their website yet.. they are only in the 2006 printed catalog.

They look pretty tough in the catalog, I'll find out later this week.
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[*] posted on 14-2-2006 at 11:47


Best of luck
Sort out your storage, crack the ampuole and everything should be OK. A lung full of bromine is not recomended, worse that chlorine because chlorine is a gas.

mick
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