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Author: Subject: Electrets
IrC
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[*] posted on 29-12-2005 at 23:04
Electrets


Just finished building my 30 KV supply and loading it with a gallon and a half of Shell Diala-X. Getting ready to start playing with electrets again only this time I am going to be using my kiln and playing around with solid ceramics held in HV fields while they cool down to see if I can develop electrets of new compositions rather than the old melted wax and plastic compositions. I was curious if anyone else here plays around with this stuff and if anyone has any cool ideas as to materials I could try.

On a side note in doing my research I chanced across a site that I had wanted to post in another thread here months ago when the proper subject came up but had lost the bookmark. Having just found it by accident again I thought I would post it here for the sake of posterity. Or maybe just so I can know where to go find it if I ever lose the bookmark again. It is quite simply the best site on electrostatic machines I have ever found online and I have built some of the devices therein. It is located at:

http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/electrostatic.html

Here is a link to a paper on the subject of electrets:

http://website.lineone.net/~aarekhu/eguchi.htm

Here are some relevant patents if anyone wants to do some reading on the subject.

U.S. Patent Documents
===================
3246627
3301707
3421930
3600216
3663265
3956525
4018945
4047998
4054680
4086499
4123308
4186164
6,899,931 Film material
6,846,449 Method of producing an electrically charged film
6,743,464 Method of making electrets through vapor condensation
6,030,381 Composite dielectric coating for electrosurgical implements
5,137,780 Article having a composite insulative coating
5,028,359 Process of consolidating low-melting materials
5,024,879 Process for consolidating discontinuous-structured materials
4,921,723 Process for applying a composite insulative coating to a substrate
4,808,849 Phyllosilicate electrets and a method for their manufacture
4,654,546 Electromechanical film and procedure for manufacturing same
4,565,615 Glow discharge stabilization of piezoelectric polymer film
4,497,892 Method for forming multiple images on a photographic film
4,407,852 Electrets from plasma polymerized material
4,393,091 Method of vacuum depositing a layer on a plastic film substrate
4,291,245 Electrets

[Edited on 30-12-2005 by IrC]
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Tacho
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[*] posted on 3-3-2006 at 05:26


IrC

I find your research very interesting.

Did you describe your 30kV supply elsewere in this forum?

Please post your results.
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IrC
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[*] posted on 3-3-2006 at 12:41


I have posted a power supply for electroplating and a negative resistance meter but never wrote up this one. It was too simple, just an xray transformer fed by another lower one, 20 VAC, to limit the output, and fed into a stack of high voltage diodes and resistors and filtered. Nothing complex enough to be worth writing about. I imagine most people would rather build an electret supply running off low voltage DC using something like a 555 timer/osc and power fets driving a flyback from an old monitor or something to create the high voltage DC, much safer than what I built. I just wanted the possibility of higher voltage and current by changing things around so my supply could be used for other projects as well.

The xray transformer is so hard to come by it is not really worth making a post over, as it is unlikely anyone else will use one and the circuit is so simple I think it is best anyone playing around with this stuff have enough knowledge not to need a diagram anyway for safetys sake. If you really are interested I can scan my hand drawn schematic.
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Lambda
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[*] posted on 3-3-2006 at 17:03
HV Power Supplies


Samuel M. Goldwasser has a real good Website on this subject using the Flyback (LOPT) Transformer salvaged from a B/W or color TV or Computer Monitor:
Simple High Voltage Generator: Low Voltage DC In, up to 30 KV Out Version 1.21:
http://members.misty.com/don/hvinvert.htm

J. L. Naudin has also some good designs:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/hvps.htm

Blaze Labs Research (Commercial):
Design of lightweight HV Power Supplies for EHD experiments:
http://www.blazelabs.com/e-exp03.asp

If you ever have any questions or want a real good Forum on this subject, then check out Sam Baros (PowerLabs), he has it all:
PowerLabs Flyback Driver:
http://www.powerlabs.org/flybackdriver.htm

Sam's Strobe FAQ also has it all:
http://repairfaq.cis.upenn.edu/sam/strbfaq.htm

Sam's Laser FAQ from the same Author:
http://www.eio.com/repairfaq/sam/laserdps.htm

Also check out Madhatter's FTP services for the PDF file of the whole Website:
UPLOAD / Lambda / Sam's Laser Files (PDF)

Remark:
There are so many Websites on the subject of High Voltage Power Supplies, that I had to make a very short compilation of only a few starters for the DIY HV Power Supply builder. Please folow there links for more information on the subject. PowerLabs from Sam Baros is about as good as it can get on the Web.
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IrC
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[*] posted on 3-3-2006 at 22:10


Thanks for the info. While I am talking, don't really want to make a new thread so I'll ask here. Does anyone know the proper way to polish the ends on a ruby laser rod? I don't want to go through some complex expensive project, just something cheap and dirty but safe for spendy rod. I was thinking of something like a spark plug cleaner in terms of operation theory, using fine cerium oxide dust and blowing it around on only the very end of both ends of rod. Or should I polish the whole rod? I know, nothing to do with thread but what the hell I might have saved the server a few K.

At the very least I would like to have the rod useable if not real efficient, the major concern is doing nothing that could even remotely hurt the rod. They are even more fragile than I thought they would be. Later on I will bug people about the best way to silver the ends, as how the hell do you know when you have say 99.9% mirror on one end and slightly lower on other? I mean how exactly do I measure what the percentage is on each end? I guess I am too used to buying crap that most of this kind of work is done. Yes, you got it. If I ever build a 6 inch reflector I may home do it but the damn mirror is going to be store bought. I am not totally walmart-ized. At least I might glue it on myself???
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[*] posted on 6-3-2006 at 16:46


For eletrets you might try some of the titanate compositions used for ceramic capacitors. (going soley from memory here).

For polishing your ruby rod I'd look at getting a faceting wheel from a lapidary supplier. You will have to keep the two ends extremely flat (better than 1/4 wavelength), and extremely parallel if you don't want to used external mirrors.




Helicopter: "helico" -> spiral, "pter" -> with wings
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[*] posted on 10-1-2007 at 08:43


try using CaCO3, good results have been had with that material!

http://wegalink.eu/energy/

http://www.borderlands.de/energy.reid.php3

[Edited on 10-1-2007 by D4RR3N]
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[*] posted on 10-1-2007 at 11:13


From the first of those sites I quote (for the delight and education of those reading this thread) the following

"I confirm that I have received and thoroughly investigated best to my knowledge some multiple battery-like devices that deliver a continuous energy output without any energy input which would be visible to my (current) measurement equipment. "

And I call "bullshit!":P
I can't read German so I can't comment on the second site cited but I'm not going to bother getting it translated.

[Edited on 10-1-2007 by unionised]
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franklyn
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[*] posted on 18-1-2007 at 09:44


Somewhat related to this thread started by Irc
is this that I posted before elsewhere.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=6032#p...

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