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Author: Subject: can fictional chemicals have a real life counterpart?
goblin
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[*] posted on 24-1-2006 at 07:29
can fictional chemicals have a real life counterpart?


I have resubmitted this because eventhough it does seem silly, in a serious context it can genereate interesting and possibly thought probing converstaion.
I am also seriously interested in any response...i am truly trying to apply a serious context.





I see since alot of people are jumping on the fictional chemical boat i decided to ask my own questions:

1)In batman the joker uses a binary chemical that produces spasms, laughter and causes victem to have a grotesque smile; see link- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joker_venom
while i know no chemical can produce symptoms like that in itsself, are there binarys that would rpduce similar effects?
nitrous oxide and a nerve agent maby?

2) if you have ever seen spiderman you know of the green goblin and his super syrum. Is there such a compound that woud: enhace relfexes and strenght and cellular regeneration?(obviously steroids, but any greater chem? or mix?) i thought maby a protine booster and steroid might do it? perhaps a certain toxin that effects muscular response

3)I know i will get laughed at for this one but: if you ever seen resident evil or return of the living dead you know that there is the virus or chemical that reanimates dead cells and shocks the nerves thusly bringing the dead back. ok before you flip out I KNOW IT ISNT POSSIBLE but, im sure there are chemicals that come close, i know that amyl nitrate can be used to jump start a frogs heart... are there any that would do the same for muscular/brain functions and enhance or boost cellular regeneration?

thanks....like i said i know these are all fictional chemicals but since like we all saw in the fear toxin thread, some things do exist that are close to the effects of it. I would appriciate any reply to any 3 of my questions on my questions.

thanks!
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Darkblade48
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[*] posted on 24-1-2006 at 08:08


I thought there was a previous thread exactly like this that was detritus-ed
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goblin
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[*] posted on 24-1-2006 at 08:44


yes but.....i have talked to several users who felt that it would make a interesting discussion..... it has nothing of invalue....its just an interesting subject that has to do with possibal real life counterparts
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[*] posted on 24-1-2006 at 19:28


Well KRYPTONITE is real actually, but wasn't discovered until the late 70's. It is a compound of FLOURINE (a halogen), and KRYPTON-86 (Radioactive ISOTOPE of the Noble gas KRYTPON) it's one of the few noble gas compunds that can exist at 1 atmo in reasonable temperatures. other noble gas compunds exist, but are unstable at less than 10 atmosphere or more; neon sulphide, argon selenide, etc. KRYPTONITE (and this is funny) is a seafoam green crystal, that faintly glows in the dark, and is mildly radioactive, it is an extreme oxidizer, and burns flesh on contact (funny how they guessed that one)



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[*] posted on 25-1-2006 at 06:21


*Cough*

86Kr is a naturally-occurring isotope (17.3%), and is not a radioisotope.

KrF2 sublimes at -60°C, so even if it weren't corrosive, it would still burn flesh. :P

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sparkgap
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[*] posted on 25-1-2006 at 06:24


Might BZ (quinuclidinyl benzilate) be the ticket to goblin's first question? I know it's a hallucinogen/euphoric, so it wouldn't necessarily evoke the expected symptoms, but possible nevertheless.

sparky (~_~)




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goblin
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[*] posted on 25-1-2006 at 07:16
New updates


I just have done some research and have found that there is a morticians chemical called trioxin (NOT THE ONE FROM THE MOVIE RETURN OF THE LIVING DEAD) its similar to Dioxin/agent orange and is made from the contact of burning Cl compounds against hydrocarbons.....its properties are remarkable, aside from being extremely carcinogenic it also repairs dead cells at a rate of 6500-8000 per 10 minuets of exposure.......the embalmers use it to keep the body looking healthy and un-decomposed

[Edited on 25-1-2006 by goblin]

[Edited on 25-1-2006 by goblin]
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[*] posted on 25-1-2006 at 09:44
reguarding BZ


BZ could produce thoses actions(amoung: depression,fear,catatonia) yes.....perhaps the addition of nitrous acid to target euphoria would complete the joker question?!
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[*] posted on 26-1-2006 at 23:15


Not exactly on topic... but i've watched one of the episodes of NCIS by CBS and these guy who was killed while he was still alive by changing its blood by a mixture of formaldehyde-ethyl alcohol ... the amazing thing behind that horrible act is that the corpse looks as if alive.

The question is : is this formaldehyde-ethanol mix real?




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[*] posted on 27-1-2006 at 16:50
interesting


thats interesting, so it triggered the bodys secondary relexes?
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[*] posted on 27-1-2006 at 19:27
Speaking of fictional chemicals


Thiotimoline!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiotimoline
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[*] posted on 30-10-2014 at 11:00


not too many years ago people revives dead humans injecting tobacco fumes through the anus, funny :D
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[*] posted on 30-10-2014 at 12:30


Quote: Originally posted by pneumatician  
not too many years ago people revives dead humans injecting tobacco fumes through the anus, funny :D
Pretty similar to how this zombie thread got revived.
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[*] posted on 3-11-2014 at 02:32


Quote: Originally posted by sparkgap  
Might BZ (quinuclidinyl benzilate) be the ticket to goblin's first question? I know it's a hallucinogen/euphoric, so it wouldn't necessarily evoke the expected symptoms, but possible nevertheless.

sparky (~_~)

I doubt it. Some kind of tetanic agent, or depolarizing muscarinic high affinity compound would match spasms and death rictus.

Pharmacology very clearly shows that any physiological reaction can be duplicated by exogenous compounds. Targeting only one receptor localization, or delivering the drug to a specific region of the brain in an appropriate dose to cause the desired response is far beyond anything practical, but the theory holds that a group of pharmacologically active agents with appropriate dosing and administration can cause any effect otherwise witnessed.

Delivery of an agent, or the route of administration, is the hardest aspect of chemical warfare. Once you mix agents together (not binary, as binary chemical agents are two precursors for safety and stability) in a combinatorial fashion, you will run into problems with vapor pressure, diffusion, solubility, persistence, etc.
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[*] posted on 3-11-2014 at 09:14


Quote: Originally posted by JustMe  
Thiotimoline!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiotimoline

Don't mention altruizine . . .

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[*] posted on 10-11-2014 at 05:11


after reading about thiotimoline ,i was completely blown away :o
even if it is a fictitious compound ,if such a compound could ever be synthesized ,then it would completely revolutionize healthcare

according to the wiki page ,thiotimoline dissolves in water before water has been added to it ,because it has already gone to the future and dissolved in the water that you will add to it in the future

to give an example to understand it better
suppose at T=0 second ,you are going to add thiotimoline to a glass of water ,at T=3 ,it is in free fall in the glass and at T=5 ,it hits the surface of water and dissolves
but you see that it vanishes at T=4 ,as it has gone to the future and already dissolved in the water in the glass

so if thiotimoline analogs could be made ,which dissolve in chemicals other than water (say toxins released from cancer cells,or harmful toxins from bacteria or virus)
then those analogs could be added to a drop of the patient's blood and if they dissolve ,then that means that the patient is going to have that disease in the future:o

recording the time taken for the analog to dissolve(thiotimoline dissolves 1.12 seconds before it hits the water)and the quantity dissolved will tell us after how many days,months or years and the severity with which the person is going to suffer from that disease

then the person could be treated with medicines or vaccines or even undergo surgery to prevent that disease
imagine how many lives could be saved:)


[Edited on 10-11-2014 by CuReUS]
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[*] posted on 27-2-2015 at 23:51


Old thread but on page one, so I'll indulge. The idea of creating a hypothetical compound that would be so soluble that it would dissolve in water before it touches it is extremely interesting as a thought experiment. The idea that an analogue could dissolve in toxins doesn't make sense, they're not solvents, nothing dissolves in them, usually peptides.

The things you could do with a chemical that would do something as simple as dissolve in a solvent based on bonding that stretches across time go beyond little tests. The thought experiment is limitless. I have some notion that a sort of computer could be created that would use the compound's state to transmit information potentially faster than light. If the machine decides to add water to a sample a light year away, and it dissolves once that intention is formed, that information has somehow exceeded C. Just one thought, anyway.

Anyway, with regard to the OP, question one could be answered by BZ, perhaps atropine. How important are the muscular spasms? If it's that important there are much better ideas than botulinum toxin! There are all sorts of compounds that'll cause muscle spasms and do so without needing to be injected. I'd suggest some type of GABA antagonist with BZ or atropine.

2 enhance reflexes and strength? How about amphetamine and perhaps a low dose of PCP? Something to numb the body to pain, maybe a PCP analogue with limited hallucinogenic effects but strong dissociative effect. Muscles aren't actually stronger, but they can be exerted beyond normal capabilities, which the amphetamine will also help. Enhanced cellular regeneration? I dunno, there's a lot of stuff that has some impact on that rate.

3. Reanimate dead cells? Out of luck there. You think there's a known secret to bringing life back to the dead? Nah... this one can't even be approximated. Though perhaps you could get a virus or bacteria to 'wear' a dead bacterial cell and make use of its facilities (organelles), asking for this on human scale isn't about to happen.
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[*] posted on 28-2-2015 at 09:23


Thiotimoline's not as fantastic as it sounds- I've worked with compounds that dissolved before the addition of solvent. In that case, the solvent was dichloromethane, and the asphaltenes would dissolve in the solvent vapours before the solvent itself came out of the bottle.



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[*] posted on 28-2-2015 at 14:01


It is a bit silly, so perhaps Whimsy ?



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[*] posted on 20-5-2015 at 05:38


Quote: Originally posted by goblin  
I just have done some research and have found that there is a morticians chemical called trioxin (NOT THE ONE FROM THE MOVIE RETURN OF THE LIVING DEAD) its similar to Dioxin/agent orange and is made from the contact of burning Cl compounds against hydrocarbons.....its properties are remarkable, aside from being extremely carcinogenic it also repairs dead cells at a rate of 6500-8000 per 10 minuets of exposure.......the embalmers use it to keep the body looking healthy and un-decomposed

[Edited on 25-1-2006 by goblin]

[Edited on 25-1-2006 by goblin]


Hmmm I wonder what affect it'd have on necrotic tissue? (on a not dead organism)

[Edited on 20-5-2015 by user1007]
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[*] posted on 9-7-2015 at 00:56


I have invented a real life version of "Game of Thrones"' incendiary weapon, the Wildfire. My recipe is based on the Soviet World War II era weapon, the "KS Fluid", which already is very similar to Wildfire. It is a solution of sulfur and white phosphorus in carbon disulphide. My version differs in that it also contains a large amount of ethyl borate, to give it the Wildfire's characteristic green flame.
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