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Author: Subject: An interesting (probably illegal) find
Zombie
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[*] posted on 3-3-2015 at 14:23


40% say Yay Cops, 60% say no to cops.

Like I said earlier... What a world we have created for ourselves...

People pulling blinds because of their hobby, yet 11 year old's are selling crack in the streets.

Where do I begin?

There was an episode of Antiques Road Show, where the fella brought in an 1890's vintage "Pharmacological sample case".
Beautiful wood box with three layers of compartmentalized trays. Each tray had approx. 30 compartments that held approx. One Ounce vials of every available drug made at that time.

The complete item was a GEM!

Then the owner says there are two vials missing. My older brother found the case a few years before I ever saw it.

Road show guy says, Yes. I noticed... Morphine, and Marijuana are missing. That being what it is does not really detract from the price. The missing vials can still be found at auction, or on line.

Much ado about nothing.

Don't worry about us!!! Throw a 1899 party, and have lot's of "Red Eye" handy.
Anyone know how long coke lasts? :D




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adk
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[*] posted on 3-3-2015 at 14:28


Donate to the American Chemical Society collection or a museum.

A
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[*] posted on 3-3-2015 at 14:48


Quote: Originally posted by adk  
Donate to the American Chemical Society collection or a museum.

A


You understand that 99% of what goes into museums is stored off site, and NEVER see's the light of day again.

That is until the institute needs money, and your 'donation" is auctioned off.

It's like taking a cat to go run on the farm... There is no farm.

Just sayin' :(




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[*] posted on 3-3-2015 at 14:55


it could also be worth contacting one of the museums and seeing if they will purchase the whole kit. you might have a nice find that is worth a dollar. I would try melb or Sydney

a similar find was on "antiques roadshow" last week


[Edited on 3-3-2015 by diddi]




Beginning construction of periodic table display
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Marvin
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[*] posted on 3-3-2015 at 15:34


Going to the police will just see the samples destroyed. If you contact anyone try phoning a *big* university pharmacy department. At my old uni they had all sorts on display including ergot. They will have a good idea what the law is and what bodies are qualified/licenced to preserve them and if they are worth saving.
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[*] posted on 3-3-2015 at 16:40





yea yea yea yea yea yea man, I'll take them off your hands man



DON'T DESTROY. They have been there for the last hundred years doing no harm. Keep them for another hundred and they will be worth a fortune
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[*] posted on 3-3-2015 at 18:23


Good to hear everyone's opinions.

I feel like I should explain myself better. I don't distrust the police. But, in a lab in view of my house I have iodine solution, potassium hydroxide, sulfuric acid, sides of match boxes (they always seem a waste to throw out...), hydrochloric... You know how it is. I'm not worried about getting raided though, as I've never done organic chemistry that would come even close to making any drugs, and a complete swab of the lab would show up clean. That changes though if a vial of ephedrine shows up in my room.

What was I doing? Was I stocking the lab with intent to convert some of these chemicals? Was I reverse engineering the cocaine? Maybe I've been buying old samples overseas and converting them, maybe I have a huge stockpile somewhere else of old ephedrine, where there's one vial there might be hundreds, it could've been a huge vet clinic? Reading MrBlank's story from the neighbouring state shows just how seriously the police take a positive (or false positive) test for amphetamines in a home lab setting.

The atropine sulphate is safe. The codeine as well I believe, as with the NG. The strychnine I don't feel comfortable with destroying myself, but if I'm honest it's not like I'm not planning to work with azides or Mercury in future so I should have the facilities to deal with it.

Perhaps the idea floated by j_sum1 made me think that I'll get a bit of an 'drug antioffense', a gold star next to my name, so if I go in a few months later and perhaps mention that my grandmas place has turned up a small vial of mercury waste, they'll take it without too many more questions. Will take it there though.

For now, no rush. And, if anything, this post should give me some nice evidence for my good intentions. :)
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[*] posted on 13-3-2015 at 16:53


Well, you could tuck it away somewhere private. It is after-all a family heirloom.

Or, alternately.....you could shoot up all of that dope, and dance naked on yer roof.

Or, you could get yourself a horse. Here in The States, different rules are applied to veterinary type drugs. Prescription items may not require a prescription, if they are intended for use on animals.
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[*] posted on 13-3-2015 at 17:32


Whether to keep or destroy them is your business, personally I'm a bit of a pack rat and would be inclined to keep them but if keeping a number of controlled substances makes you nervous (not surprising) I would not recommend that you contact the police. Best case scenario is that they're reasonable, and destroy them. Worst case you get arrested and they get a warrant to rip your house apart. Why risk it?
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[*] posted on 13-3-2015 at 18:16


A few years ago I had some boxes of .22 caliber and .300 caliber bullets that I no longer needed as I had sold the guns. I had heard some years earlier that you could take unwanted bullets to the police for proper disposal. So I took the bullets down to my local station, a place I had never been to before. First of all there were no policemen there, just a receptionist. (I found this very strange.) She acted like I was doing something strange. I asked her if I could just leave the bullets with her to give to the police. She reluctantly agreed and told me to put them on the floor outside her window. Then she insisted on getting my name, address, and phone number.

I got the impression that the police were impersonal automatons. Their reaction to your good intentions is unpredictable and unlikely to gain you any favorable standing with them. Possibly your good intentions could work against you.

[Edited on 14-3-2015 by Magpie]




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[*] posted on 13-3-2015 at 19:43


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Possibly your good intentions could work against you.

[Edited on 14-3-2015 by Magpie]



ANYTHING you say can, and will be used against you!

Sound familiar?




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[*] posted on 16-3-2015 at 18:46


Man you all are a bunch of whining pu%*((&s, First off, NO, dont be foolish and throw ANY OF THAT away. That stuff is not going to be used for recreation reasons, and to be quite honest, considering the fact that your chances of getting A)caught with any of it if left just as you found it, is less then the chances of you getting pulled over and having a cop plant drugs on you.... and part B of A, even if say you did get caught with it (which would only be in a home raid because your not taking it driving around town showing it off, they would clearly know that there is zero intent in its actual use, and no D.A would ever waste there time to even prosecute you for LOOK AT IT! ITS NOT A CLASSIC CRACK HEADS FOIL WRAPPED CRACK PIPE WITH A SYRINGE AND LIGHTER WITH IT! What you have there is awesome history of not only how it was once prescribed, packaged, and so forth, but your grandfather as well. now B) I dont know how old you are exactly, but if you keep all that in its exact condition, stored just as it was if not better, that can be worth some great money when you are older for all sorts of historic reasons in a museum or god knows...

You do NOT need the unnecessary attention brought upon yourself because believe me, that will be recorded, along with the rest of the shit you innocently do in your home, by much more then just local authorities. It would be absolutely one of the dumbest things you could do by calling the police for you've found grampas old cough syrup. The cops will probably be more upset over the fact that you were such a pu$%^& to have them come "properly dispose" of shit YOU PROBABLY KNOW EVEN MORE SO HOW IT IN FACT SHOULD BE DONE! IF YOU EVEN ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO MENTION SOMETHING IN REGARDS TO ANY OF IT BEING RADIO ACTIVE.... LOL you really think a police officer with a gun is going to show up, and will know his head from his a$$ let alone his pistol from his D%$@, and now radio active? hahahaha great way to put your self in MUCH UNNEEDED SPOT LIGHT and of the list of people to watch.... regardless if you dont break the law, theres no reason for them to know your name, plain and simple. the way things are going right now in this country, that exactly what YOU SHOULDNT WANT. Just my 2 cents. What you have is awesome, should not be disposed of leaving you with empty jars no, leave it as it is. youll be happy you did years from now when some historic organization offers you X amount of money to display it in a science of medicine exhibit. IF ANYTHING! CALL THEM AND DONATE IT TO THEM IN ONE CONDITION, YOUR GRAMPS NAME RECEIVES CREDIT SOMEHOW IN ITS SHOW CASE.
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[*] posted on 16-3-2015 at 18:52


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
A few years ago I had some boxes of .22 caliber and .300 caliber bullets that I no longer needed as I had sold the guns. I had heard some years earlier that you could take unwanted bullets to the police for proper disposal. So I took the bullets down to my local station, a place I had never been to before. First of all there were no policemen there, just a receptionist. (I found this very strange.) She acted like I was doing something strange. I asked her if I could just leave the bullets with her to give to the police. She reluctantly agreed and told me to put them on the floor outside her window. Then she insisted on getting my name, address, and phone number.

I got the impression that the police were impersonal automatons. Their reaction to your good intentions is unpredictable and unlikely to gain you any favorable standing with them. Possibly your good intentions could work against you.

[Edited on 14-3-2015 by Magpie]



ONCE STUPID! BUT TURNED INTO A SMART MAN! thats solid advice right there, and guess what, that ammunition was probably taken home and later shot by those pigs.... when he could have sold that .300 for a nice penny! When ever you do anything like that, just as I dropped off a purse I found, they wanted all my info, I simply said nope, all im here to do is get the owner of this purse her belongings back. No need to have any of my information at all. She wants to thank me? Guess what, I can already hear her saying it, shes welcome. bye! lol wouldnt doubt if cops saw the value in what you have and just did the same thing and collected cash or simply credit for it... your not going to jail for 40 year old shit thats probably not even able to test positive anymore LOL

[Edited on 17-3-2015 by WeaponsRx]
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[*] posted on 16-3-2015 at 21:01


That was a rant if I ever saw one. Maybe I should highlight one thing:
Quote: Originally posted by WeaponsRx  
... the way things are going right now in this country...


Tdep is not in the same country as you.
The laws are different.
The culture is different.
Police practice is different. In particular, police corruption is seldom even heard of.
Drug culture is different.
Chemical and drug watch lists are different.

Which all goes to there not being much relevant in your little tirade
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[*] posted on 16-3-2015 at 23:28


Quote: Originally posted by WeaponsRx  
your not going to jail for 40 year old shit thats probably not even able to test positive anymore LOL

Please don't make up numbers or talk about drug stability without knowing what you're talking about. Properly stored narcotics can last decades without significant enough degradation to test negative, even if they are not necessarily the same polymorph that is active in the body. The ester bonds of cocaine and the oxidation of morphine and codeine would be what I would expect, but any intermediate dimerization products would certainly be capable of giving a false positive daughter fragment in mass spec, and that is assuming that temperature, moisture, oxygen, and time have all had their effect. At least one of those looks hermetially sealed. I don't know when they were made, the exact pharmacopeia guidelines, formulation environment, etc. but I'm not making a claim either way.

Also not giving advice. I know people who disposed of old military/police flashbang style stun grenades from a deceased relative, but they did it through backchannels... not walking right up or calling. No idea what the police there would do, and it may differ between different agencies. Some of those might be regulated differently than others (apomorphine as an emetic or narcotic? Poisons act with drugs for the strychnine?).
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[*] posted on 17-3-2015 at 00:57


Should've known this would bring out the anti-police rants haha.

No update, the box is once again gathering dust - just now it's on a different shelf. Guess it is rather good at that, and that's looking like how it will stay.

Let's be honest, if someone wanted to arrest me, pretty sure my long history of explosives manufacturing is a much easier target than 3mg of cocaine from 1950 in my possession.
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[*] posted on 17-3-2015 at 16:58


Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
That was a rant if I ever saw one. Maybe I should highlight one thing:
Quote: Originally posted by WeaponsRx  
... the way things are going right now in this country...


Tdep is not in the same country as you.
The laws are different.
The culture is different.
Police practice is different. In particular, police corruption is seldom even heard of.
Drug culture is different.
Chemical and drug watch lists are different.

Which all goes to there not being much relevant in your little tirade


For one,
You have the slightest clue to where I actually live,
Two, there is all the relevance in the world to my "tirade" as ITS ALL TRUE! Hes NOT getting busted, hes NOT going to face the law in ANY COUNTRY for possessing what hes got, and three he would achieve NOTHING but unwanted attention to himself by being an god dam pussy and turning in what his grandfather left behind.... now if you want to raise your arms in the air when the train pulls up in your neighborhood, GREAT! Dont worry! your only being relocated to a exotic island near Fiji! hop on in! dumb ass... your living in a fairy tale to have as much confidence in the gov. you call yours guy.... good luck to you. All I got to say is i'd take a noose to my neck if this guy ever got prosecuted for having these.... I forgot, suddenly everyone in heres a DA thats been through law school and works for the gov.
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[*] posted on 17-3-2015 at 16:59


you sir, are a pussy, and in this day and age, just like the nice guys in the 80's, youll finish last.
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[*] posted on 17-3-2015 at 19:00


Gentlemen.

Please resist the urge to flame, most especially outside of whimsy.

If those who have done so will PLEASE edit their own comments in line with the forum FAQ, I shall not need to get out the voodoo dolls and acupuncture pins...

http://www.sciencemadness.org/madscifaq.html#2.2_Board_etiqu...




Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:

1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

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[*] posted on 17-3-2015 at 22:01


Quote: Originally posted by WeaponsRx  
Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
That was a rant if I ever saw one. Maybe I should highlight one thing:
Quote: Originally posted by WeaponsRx  
... the way things are going right now in this country...


Tdep is not in the same country as you.
The laws are different.
The culture is different.
Police practice is different. In particular, police corruption is seldom even heard of.
Drug culture is different.
Chemical and drug watch lists are different.

Which all goes to there not being much relevant in your little tirade


For one,
You have the slightest clue to where I actually live,

My apologies. Something you said made me assume that you were talking about the US. I think it might have been the reference to "crack". Crack is not a common term in Australia.

WeaponsRX, if you are indeed Australian then I admit my error and retract my statement. If you are not a resident of Australia then I think my comment still stands -- there are cultural and administrative differences that should be considered.
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[*] posted on 18-3-2015 at 01:15


Quote: Originally posted by WeaponsRx  
and three he would achieve NOTHING but unwanted attention to himself by being [expletives removed for quotation purposes] and turning in what his grandfather left behind....

You mean grandmother. Not everyone recommended turning over the samples to law enforcement, so that is a huge mischaracterization, but it was Tdep himself who initially seemed convicted of the prudence of destroying them, so if you aren't going to behave civilly, why try so hard to influence what Tdep does with his own property?

The facts are that at least some of those substances will almost certainly test positive. I don't need to talk about the stability of pills and solid drug dosage forms, excipients, etc. nor do I mean to give legal advice for where Tdep is (the only legal advice that matters).

I'm just interested in information so that people can make informed decisions. No name calling, no wild numerical fabrications, and hopefully no arguments. Tdep is the only one who can make the risk assessment on what to do, whether that means destroying, forfeiting, or keeping any substances. He says he practiced energetics, and Australia has had customs appear very interested in chemistry orders, according to posts on this site. He knows better than we do, I presume, what his risk level is, and he is the only one who can make the value judgment on what to do, if properly informed, which is what I believe he asked for in the end of this post here: https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=61... . This is his thread, and he was kind enough to share pictures of his heirlooms. Let's not mislead him through emotion or ignorance.
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[*] posted on 8-10-2015 at 02:56


Keep them, they are clearly old and you have a good back story with Granny. No way even if arrested would this fly in court. Different story if you had purchased them as a collector on ebay though.
But seeing as its a pass down I dont see a problem




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[*] posted on 20-10-2015 at 22:47


I'd take them to a licenced chemist or 'Drugstore' (where ever you get your prescriptions filled out) and get them to clean out the vials so you can still keep them as antiques.

You do't really know whats in those vials, even with a name tag on it. The average person does not know what "Diacetylmorphine' is or any other weird chemical name, or medicine.

A licensed pharmicist knows what they are doing, they are also licensed. And thats licensed to hold these chemicals.
So as soon as you have handed over your "I got no idea of what this is except it could be compounds and I like the look of the historic containers so could you please get rid of the contents for me sir, but I would like the clean empty containers back"
You have done your part.

If its in a complete box or such, take it all in and let them go thru it and remove whatever they want, but so you get the empty containers back, its part of a set.

I wouldn't be suprised if the pharmicist wanted to buy the whole set off you, as they do like historic stuff.
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