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Author: Subject: Readily available Plasticizers & Binders
Frontier9
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I have been searching in vain for the names of Plasticizers and Binders that are easily obtainable. Does anyone have knowledge of Plasticizers & Binders that are readily available and that are chemically missable with each other?
YT2095
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a simple one is to get a lump of Blu-Tak and a flask of petrol/gasoline, then add little bits to it slowly whilst stirring.
the gritty particles will sink to the bottom leaving you to decant the dissolved plastisizer.
evaporation of the pertol will leave a perfectly usefull agent for this purpose.

just be carefull as petrol fumes are very heavy and volatile, theyll be at the highest concentration around your ankles so you may not even smell it, do it Outside

\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
Frontier9
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Binders

Thanks for the info on how to prepare a Plasticizer YT2095; is there also an easy way of producing a Binder?
YT2095
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use Dextrin then.
its also a reducing agent so youll need a TINY fraction more Oxidiser for a perfect burn, and by a fraction I mean like half a percent more, as you dont need much dextrin to set things like Rock!

\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
chemoleo
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While dextrin is of no use when it comes to materials that are hygroscopic, and materials that can't/shouldn't be heated to dry it.

Latex would be another plasticiser by the way. But again it is water based.

Polystyrene/trichloroethylene (dissolves it well) or acetone work too as a binder, after full evaporation the product is solid.

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YT2095
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NC laquer is also usefull and alot less Sooty than Styrenes that can affect certain color compositions.

Ive also used Rice Flour to great effect for Stars, but also as mentioned above, its not ideal for Hydroscopic materials that cannot be heated.

\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
Swany
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Are you binding pyrotechnics or plasticizing other energetic materials? If you are working on pyrotechnics you need to decide if you want a water based binder, or a non-polar based binder. NC dissolved in acetone (NC laquer) can be used to bind and waterproof compositions, and is fairly clean burning. Red gum in alcohol is a good binder. Dextrin and water, guar gum, etc etc.

For plasticizing, I would suggest getting some self-adhesive tape, cover with white petrol/gas; leave it for a day while not breaking up the tape too much as you want to extract the polyisobutylene, not dissolve the tape. Decant this, and add acetone (about one volume, until the PIB precipitates fully, take the glob and kneed it until the acetone is out of it. This can be dissolved in warm white gas, mixed the material to be plasticized, and I use some heavy motor oil as a filler to make it less sticky. Once you get the ratios right, you can have a very malleable mix that has the feel of slightly less sticky blutac/sticky tack. (Credit to Deceitful Frank for coming up with this, and whomever was working with him)

Frontier9
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Can any of the following function as a Plasticizer or Binder?:

A. Modeling Clay

B. Motor Oil

C. Silly Putty

D. Petroleum Jelly

E. Cooking Oil

F. Styrofoam

G. Beeswax

YT2095
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AHA, here we go with the old Homework type questions again you asked in another Post!

[Edited on 9-7-2006 by YT2095]

\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
csm9420
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 Quote: Originally posted by YT2095 AHA, here we go with the old Homework type questions again you asked in another Post! edit: in particular: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=6153#p... [Edited on 9-7-2006 by YT2095]

I think i read a way to make plasticize effect with vaseline and white oil and wax

Can i use vaseline and wax dissolved in white motor oil?
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Plasticizers & binders for what?

Those that you would making some bioplastic would be no good for making hamburger patties.

You can purchase or make phthalate esters such as DIOP. The Wiki gives a list of others.
csm9420
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 Quote: Originally posted by Paddywhacker Plasticizers & binders for what? Those that you would making some bioplastic would be no good for making hamburger patties. You can purchase or make phthalate esters such as DIOP. The Wiki gives a list of others.

How can i make DIOP?? can you give me any instruction or links it introduction? Thanks
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 Quote: Originally posted by csm9420 ... How can i make DIOP?? can you give me any instruction or links it introduction? Thanks

A standard Fischer ester synth. Phthalic acid and iso-octyl alcohol in molar ratios 1:2 refluxed with a little acid catalyst ... toluene sulphonic acid or H2SO4. Refluxing with toluene in a Dean-Stark apparatus would be ideal.

The problem is getting the alcohol, I guess.

Work-up would be washing with bicarbonate solution, then water. Then drying. The yield should be quantitative, so no need to distill.
Contrabasso
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Put the word Reofos in your favourite search engine. That is one well regarded plasticiser for some plastics. Also look out DOP and DAP Di octyl and di allyl phthalate. Check all products for their intended use and temperature range before committing yourself.

Ring round a few places in your country and see if you can get a sample - may even get a gallon!
ksj_6808
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Plasticizers and binders

p = plasticizer; b = binder; e = main explosive to plasticize

EX:
RDX(e) --> Nitroglycerin(p) / Acetone (b)
PETN(e) --> Propylene Glycol(p) / Water(b)
RDX(e) --> Glycerin(p) / Water(b)

From what i understand and im pretty sure it's accurate, there's no need to go through so much just to obtain a good plasticizer, Probably the best plasticizer is NG or EGDN because they are very powerfull themselves and will not bog down your RDX or whatever your using, therefore will be more powerfull than military c4. However NG would probably work better because EGDN is runnier. Your crystals need to be as fine as you can get them (recrystallize very slowly) and if you know the predetermined amount of plasticizer you need then it is best to use the binder, however a binder is not always nessesary as you can just kneed the plasticizer into the composition, however the binder will dissolve the plasticizer and make the plasticizer more uniform throughout the plastique. I know vegatable glycerin works very well as a plasticizer on it's own, although i havent tried it with an HE yet, i've plasticized flour and it works great and the pictures are of the plasticized flour. Now don't get affended if im wrong on something because im no expert, if in fact im wrong just correct me..Cheers!!

[Edited on 6-8-2012 by ksj_6808]

triplepoint
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Ksj6808 said "Your crystals need to be as fine as you can get them (recrystallize very slowly)"

But wouldn't slow crystalization result in large crystals?

The rest of the post is so far over my head I can't comment, but its certainly interesting to read.
ksj_6808
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From what i understand recrystallizing slowly does yield finer crystals. For instance, dissolve your rdx crystals into acetone, now instead of crashing the mixture in twice the volume of water, instead let the mixture set a couple of days until the acetone evaporates and leaves nothing but dry rdx crystals and you should have finer crystals, i would say put the crystals in a ball mill but that would certainly have devastating results!! Now lets say your wanting to plasticize now, get the crystals and put them in a beaker, begin to add Ng or Glycerin or whatever you choose, ng is the best though because of it's moderately high density, now just begin to pour the ng in the crystals while stirring with a plastic spoon, continue to add the ng until you get the plasticity you desire. Word of advice, keep it a little on the sticky side as it will get harder over the days. Lamens terms: just add the ng to the crystals until it's like playdough!! Good luck!!
ScienceHideout
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Can't albumin be considered a binder? You can get it from egg whites!

hey, if you are reading this, I can't U2U, but you are always welcome to send me an email!

ksj_6808
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Ya you read wikipedia im guessin, i read the same thing. Here...Whatever dissolves your plasticizer will serve as a binder, like acetone dissolves nitroglycerin...And i don't hardly think you would want to use egg whites, that would be a poor choice, you would be better off just using vaseline or mineral oil, those were the originals back in vietnam from what i remember.

 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition » Readily available Plasticizers & Binders Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues