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Author: Subject: tin metal powder
Loptr
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[*] posted on 16-6-2015 at 11:20


Quote: Originally posted by Molecular Manipulations  
I'm not a biochemist, but at least I know how to search the web.
Lots of doctors do use silver as an antibiotic coating on medical devices. Many wound dressings containing silver sulfadiazine or silver nanomaterials may be used on external infections, however there's very little evidence of it's effectiveness. Ref.
Colloidal silver and formulations containing silver salts were used by physicians in the early 20th century, but their use was largely discontinued in the 1940s following the development of safer and effective modern antibiotics.
There is tentative evidence that silver coatings on endotracheal breathing tubes may reduce the incidence of ventilator-associated pneumonia. Ref.

The silver ion (Ag+) is bioactive and in sufficient concentration readily kills bacteria in vitro. Silver exhibits low toxicity in the human body, and minimal risk is expected due to clinical exposure by inhalation, ingestion, or dermal application. Ref.
Since the 1990s, colloidal silver has again been marketed as an alternative medicine, often with extensive "cure-all" claims. Again, there's little evidence that most of these (or any) are effective.
Google is your friend.
As for tin, it isn't very toxic, mostly because in elemental form it doesn't get oxidized and thus remains just tin metal. The compounds of it aren't as toxic as many other heavy metals, but that doesn't make it "safe" either.
Also I doubt the tin used by Native Americans was free from lead and other actually toxic heavy metals, so their continued use of it may have been partially from killed brain cells that kept them from realizing they were poising themselves! No offense, it's isn't/wasn't their fault.

[Edited on 16-6-2015 by Molecular Manipulations]


Off topic, but did you guys hear about the guy that turned blue after ingestion of colloidal silver? He still continues to do it, even after this!

https://www.google.com/search?q=turning+blue+from+silver&...
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Molecular Manipulations
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[*] posted on 16-6-2015 at 11:51


Lots of people had that happen to them. I even know of somebody like that, although to a much lesser extent then that. And yeah, despite me telling her to stop, she drinks the solution on a semi-regular basis.



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[*] posted on 16-6-2015 at 12:57


There is a world of difference between showing that tin isn't very toxic; and showing that it is actually beneficial.

Incidentally, this "in elemental form it doesn't get oxidized and thus remains just tin metal." is at odds with the fact that tin dissolves in HCl (which is present in the stomach).
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[*] posted on 16-6-2015 at 13:12



Is tin actually used by any part of or function in the body?

Is there a list of actual elements that are used by the human body. All I know is that lead is not needed by any living thing.
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[*] posted on 16-6-2015 at 13:24


The process of greying Tin, is aided by the presence of some that has already changed over.

Like prion disease, ice nine, or your more atypical crystallizations .... an errant seed helps the transformation to get started. This seed, then teaches, or corrupts, the normal Tin.

Process may be hard to start, but once started, it cannot be easily stopped.

On another matter.....Ingest enough Silver, and your skin goes permanently bluish.

"Blue? Like our beloved Lord Krishna?" Some of you will longingly query. Well, No! Not hardly. Stop fantasizing.

The shade of Blue attained, is quite Greyish. Dead body-ish, in fact. If you wish to attain the lovely hue of Lord Krishna, you will have to direct your quest in some other direction.



[Edited on 16-6-2015 by zed]
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[*] posted on 16-6-2015 at 13:33


Quote: Originally posted by unionised  

Incidentally, this "in elemental form it doesn't get oxidized and thus remains just tin metal." is at odds with the fact that tin dissolves in HCl (which is present in the stomach).

You're quite right, I was thinking of antimony, which I had just been experimenting with yesterday, and is much more resistant to corrosion by acids. Sorry about that.
In any case, I never even implied that tin's lack of biological toxicity constitutes my belief that it is beneficial to health. Quite the opposite is my opinion.




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[*] posted on 17-6-2015 at 10:04


Quote: Originally posted by Molecular Manipulations  
Quote: Originally posted by unionised  

Incidentally, this "in elemental form it doesn't get oxidized and thus remains just tin metal." is at odds with the fact that tin dissolves in HCl (which is present in the stomach).

You're quite right, I was thinking of antimony, which I had just been experimenting with yesterday, and is much more resistant to corrosion by acids. Sorry about that.
In any case, I never even implied that tin's lack of biological toxicity constitutes my belief that it is beneficial to health. Quite the opposite is my opinion.


It's far from clear that Sb is any more inert that Sn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimony_pill
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[*] posted on 17-6-2015 at 10:23


I fail to see your point.
I specified it's much more resistant to acids, which it is.
Sb can be oxidized by oxygen at high temperatures. So what?
If Sb disolves in the body it must be something besides or combined with HCl (aq).
I recommend injesting neither Sb nor Sn, but to each his own I guess.

[Edited on 17-6-2015 by Molecular Manipulations]




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[*] posted on 20-6-2015 at 18:39


"To each his own"
Yum yum. Eat up! So was my suggested procedure on the first page possible?




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[*] posted on 20-6-2015 at 19:09


Replace sodium with aluminum and tin with nickel and you've copied one step off a Raney nickel production method.
It probably would work, why don't you try it out?




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[*] posted on 20-6-2015 at 19:12


Huh, thanks for the connection. I might try it if I get the stuff.



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[*] posted on 21-6-2015 at 05:42


Quote: Originally posted by Molecular Manipulations  
I fail to see your point.
I specified it's much more resistant to acids, which it is.
Sb can be oxidized by oxygen at high temperatures. So what?
If Sb disolves in the body it must be something besides or combined with HCl (aq).
I recommend injesting neither Sb nor Sn, but to each his own I guess.

[Edited on 17-6-2015 by Molecular Manipulations]

My point was that the antimony pill works because some of the antimony dissolves "in transit" and acts as a laxative.
So Antimony, even in lumps, doesn't go through the gut unchanged.
The powdered material would be attacked even more so it isn't inert.
Compared with tin, it's likely that less of the Sb would dissolve, but it's a lot more toxic than Sn anyway so it's probably just as bad an idea to swallow it (if not worse).
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[*] posted on 21-6-2015 at 07:57


"Dose makes the poison." An early treatment for syphillis was the arsenical compound Salvarsan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Arsphenamine




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[*] posted on 21-6-2015 at 11:04


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
"Dose makes the poison." An early treatment for syphillis was the arsenical compound Salvarsan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Arsphenamine


And melarsoprol is still used for bad cases of trypanossome diseases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melarsoprol
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[*] posted on 21-6-2015 at 19:10


And baseball bats are still used as anesthetic treatments, despite the fact we'd rather not meet one in an alley.



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[*] posted on 22-6-2015 at 07:32


Quote: Originally posted by Molecular Manipulations  
Replace sodium with aluminum and tin with nickel and you've copied one step off a Raney nickel production method.

If the sodium reacts with water you have a hot basic solution and tin will react to sodium stannate, especially in such a finely divided state.

[Edited on 22-6-2015 by Pok]
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[*] posted on 22-6-2015 at 07:39


Quote: Originally posted by Pok  

If the sodium reacts with water you have a hot basic solution and tin will react to sodium stannate, especially in such a finely diveded state.


That thought has occurred to me too. In the absence of an oxidiser it would be stannite (II), though. Also, although tin is an amphoteric element, dissolving tin in strong alkali would be a slow boat to China, I think. Other amphoteric elements like Zr and Ti aren't really attacked much by alkali either.

Of course very finely divided tin would increase reaction speed. For that reason I would not go down that route either.

[Edited on 22-6-2015 by blogfast25]




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[*] posted on 22-6-2015 at 09:17


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Quote: Originally posted by Pok  

If the sodium reacts with water you have a hot basic solution and tin will react to sodium stannate, especially in such a finely diveded state.


That thought has occurred to me too. In the absence of an oxidiser it would be stannite (II), though. Also, although tin is an amphoteric element, dissolving tin in strong alkali would be a slow boat to China, I think. Other amphoteric elements like Zr and Ti aren't really attacked much by alkali either.

Of course very finely divided tin would increase reaction speed. For that reason I would not go down that route either.

[Edited on 22-6-2015 by blogfast25]

What about a large quantity of rather dilute HCl solution, instead of water? This might work in small quantities.




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[*] posted on 22-6-2015 at 09:45


Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  

What about a large quantity of rather dilute HCl solution, instead of water? This might work in small quantities.


Considering reducing Sn(II) in solution is easy, I think of the whole idea as a waste of good sodium metal, frankly.




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[*] posted on 22-6-2015 at 10:19


OK. Would there be any good application of such a method for any metal? Would it work for more inert compounds, or is the use of aluminum better suited to the job?



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[*] posted on 22-6-2015 at 10:47


Such method for any metal does not exist in fact, because there are ones that are just too positive to be reduced and the only metal that could reduce them is francium.
By the way, the method with reducing the ions of the metal should work for most metals, just check the standard potential of them.
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[*] posted on 22-6-2015 at 17:21


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
In the absence of an oxidiser it would be stannite (II), though.

Are you sure? According to atomistry "the metal dissolves in warm concentrated alkalis with formation of alkali stannate and evolution of hydrogen. Stannate is formed rather than stannite owing to the superior acidity of stannic tin".

But the next part is interesting: "indeed a solution of stannite decomposes on concentration into stannate and metallic tin."

So maybe it's possible to get very finely divided tin from disproportionation of stannites.
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[*] posted on 22-6-2015 at 17:30


Pok:

Atomistry is crap, frankly speaking. Very short on actual references/sources.

The oxidation of tin to stannite is by water (H<sup>+</sup> to use the electrochemical notation), and that can only oxidise Sn(0) to Sn(II) (see e.g. oxidation of Sn to Sn(II) by dilute HCl):

Sn(0)(s) + OH<sup>-</sup>(aq) + 2 H<sub>2</sub>O(l) === > Sn(OH)<sub>3</sub><sup>-</sup> (aq) + H<sub>2</sub>(g)

Of course Sn(II) is quite easily oxidised to Sn(IV) by air oxygen.

As regards the disproportionation of Sn(II) to Sn(0) and Sn(IV), I've prepared stannite solutions in the past and never saw that, for what that's worth of course.


[Edited on 23-6-2015 by blogfast25]




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[*] posted on 23-6-2015 at 02:27


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
actual references/sources.

Which?

My source: https://books.google.de/books?id=LTTyCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA62

1.jpg - 13kB

If stannites decompose to tin an stannates in hot alkaline medium, then you will get stannates and not stannites.
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[*] posted on 23-6-2015 at 05:31


Quote: Originally posted by Pok  


My source: https://books.google.de/books?id=LTTyCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA62



If stannites decompose to tin an stannates in hot alkaline medium, then you will get stannates and not stannites.


SRPs is thermodynamics and thermodynamics says nothing about kinetics. What is thermodynamically feasible doesn't necessarily happen. I didn't observe disproportionation of stannite solutions.




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