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Author: Subject: DIY Hazmat Suit
SupaVillain
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[*] posted on 1-10-2015 at 19:09
DIY Hazmat Suit


Whats a cheap filler material to go between plastic sheets to make a phosphine resistant encapsulated suit?

So i have this MOVPE thing Im doing and since polyethylene is what they make the Tychem QC suits out of, im making my own suits (multi layer) with polyethylene sheeting. Very cheap, but on the side of phosphine.... apparently it can penetrate this sheeting and this sheeting is actually used for phosphine fumigations.

I am looking for a body filler material to make a denser and flexible layer to go between two of the plastic sheets, so that I will have encapsualted protection from phosphine. I've come up with using silicone, and acrylic latex caulk is the cheapest thing ive found to use at like < $2 a tube, but still this will be very tedious and take many tubes. I looked for rubber suits on ebay and all I saw was sex suits LOL

[Edited on 2-10-2015 by SupaVillain]




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macckone
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[*] posted on 1-10-2015 at 20:07


A diving dry suit is one option.

The other option is to make a suit with positive pressure.
That is what they use in hazmat situations.
Metalized duck tape is very good at resisting most non-acids.
Again it is what they use in hazmat situations.

Most plastics are not totally impermeable but by using
positive pressure and metalized duck tape seals you
can prevent any penetration.
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ave369
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[*] posted on 1-10-2015 at 22:54


Do you really deal with such huge concentrations of phosphine that it behaves like a contact poison and you need a fully sealed suit? Otherwise, special anti-phosphine cartridges for common gas masks are available.



Smells like ammonia....
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unionised
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[*] posted on 2-10-2015 at 02:27


If you have a phosphine leak that big you will have a fire.
You probably don't want to have to rely on something "home brewed" to keep you alive.
Even supplying air to encapsulation suits isn't as easy as people think.
If you plan to carry on with this (and I suggest you re-think it) then a diver's dry suit is probably a good start.
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Dr.Bob
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[*] posted on 2-10-2015 at 05:46


And of course most of the plastics that resist gases are quite flammable. I was on a hazmat team, and that was a common issue, that in any chemical spill (especially phosphine or other pyrophorics), there is a high risk of fire, so in real hazmat cases, they often use special suits made of fluorocarbons, aluminum laminates, and nomex, which cost more than some new cars.

The way to handle hazardous gases is via engineering a containment system with a backup ventilated hood that it is inside (in the event a a leak in the primary system.) That is how most places deal with things like HF, F2, H2, and other dangerous gases. If you are generating the PH3 in situ (or even using a cylinder of it) then you need a way to destroy/quench/capture it as it is going out of the system to avoid fires and poisoning yourself, or worse yet, your neighbors.
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SupaVillain
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[*] posted on 2-10-2015 at 11:53


Let me explain, an electromagnetic valve will open and close as quickly as it can be controlled to, releasing a puff of phosphine generated from water dripping onto a tiny amount of calcium phosphide, the phosphine is pushed by nitrogen and it runs across a substrate then into an abatement system. Ill have Copper (II) Oxide dry and wet scrubbers on the other side, this is really only for ultimate protection and fully encapsulated protection. This is also out in the country on private owned land. The amount of phosphine needed in a puff is for an atomic layer to be deposited. Even in the absolute worst case, that every chemical explodes, they will have been kept in such small amounts that I will be more annoyed about having to resynthesize them than I would be worried of the danger. When I homebrew things I do them exactly the way the industry does them but with ten times the sense involved with cost and nowhere near as much time spent trying to make it look pretty for customers, because Im doing this for myself, not customers who buy the shiniest and most visually appealing prodducts.

Im really just trying to play it safe and at this point my greatest worry, because i have moved to the country, is drunk hillbillies driving off the road and running over my packages before i can retrieve them. That and any idiot who cannot differentiate between any kind of science and breaking bad.




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aga
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[*] posted on 2-10-2015 at 13:07


Simplest is a positive pressure suit like macckone said.

A slow, but positive bleed of air from inside the suit to the outside, so it can be just a big plastic bag really.

Obviously the Air Feed needs to be safe to breathe, so have the pump far away, upwind, and use a long hose.

[Edited on 2-10-2015 by aga]




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SupaVillain
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[*] posted on 2-10-2015 at 13:49


WOOOAAHHH

I didnt realize what he had said, ive never heard of these positive pressure suits... this is incredibly awesome! I had already figured it would be great to send in air into the suit for cooling, but i didnt think of this, it's totally bogging my mind... dude.




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aga
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[*] posted on 2-10-2015 at 13:56


Biochemists working with seriously nasty organisms use them too.

The air is ALWAYS going OUT of the suit, so not even a virus fragment gets IN.

Basically it's the same as standing inside a tube with a huge fan behind you blowing air past you : nothing comes towards You - it always goes away.

Edit :

Googling macckone's suggestion 'suit with positive pressure' gave lots of relevant results.

this was one : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Po...

You need to look at what people here say, and then look it up if you do not immediately understand.

SM isn't FaceBook or Twitter where it is 100% random crap.

macckone gave you THE answer, just you failed to read or understand it, and further failed to look up the stuff you did not understand, hence Missed It completely.


[Edited on 2-10-2015 by aga]




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SupaVillain
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[*] posted on 2-10-2015 at 16:16


????
After I read it i looked it up and saw it and understood the idea, im just saying ive heard of lots of other things similar to it but not exactly that. Youre misunderstanding what I said. There was no further failure. That IS the answer and immediately before my previous post I had already began planning how I would make the suit based on that.




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aga
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[*] posted on 3-10-2015 at 06:37


excellent.



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SupaVillain
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[*] posted on 3-10-2015 at 21:31


Sorry for the confusion, I appreciate the solutions you all provide



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Chem Rage
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[*] posted on 5-10-2015 at 05:13


Would one of these inflatable PVC Hazmat suits suffice?
http://pvc-u-like.com/proddetail.asp?prod=SU12 ;)

It is not officially chemically rated, but being made from reasonably chemically resistant PVC, it does isolate you from, say, Cl, Br and NO2 fumes if you don't have the luxury of a fume hood and have to do your experiments outside. Of course it all depends on what.

OK, it may be a fetish suit, but I do see some potential as personal protective clothing when working with nasty gases.

[Edited on 5-10-2015 by Chem Rage]
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Little_Ghost_again
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[*] posted on 5-10-2015 at 06:55


Bio suites rip, thats why every biologist that works with level 3 and above has pre cut bits of tape stuck on there arm, the idea is if you spot a leak you can take a strip off your arm and seal it. They also work in twos and constantly check each others suites.
Its worse at level 4 but my dad hasnt worked with level 4 agents so I dont much about it, all the unis he has worked at had secure labs for level 3 that were above the normal required standard. I would love to visit the inside of a level 4 lab :D
Nearly forgot make sure sure you have a small blast of air that is directed at the visor, it fogs very quickly if you dont

[Edited on 5-10-2015 by Little_Ghost_again]




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