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Author: Subject: Getting rid of Acetone Peroxide
Rhodanide
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[*] posted on 17-11-2015 at 08:38
Getting rid of Acetone Peroxide


Hi, everyone.
I have in the past made some Acetone peroxide and would now like to dispose of it due to my distrust of the chemical. I would prefer not to detonate it all at once, or deflagrate it minute quantities at a time, (Not only does that take forever, but it's dangerous, of course!) I was looking for a simple way to chemically destroy it. Before you ask, no it has not sublimed to the point of any large crystals. If that happened, then.. I don't know.
Anyhow, i was wondering if any of you folks on here knew of any easy ways to dispose of it chemically.

I appreciate your help. :)


~T
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Detonationology
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[*] posted on 17-11-2015 at 08:56


How much are you talking about? I have got rid of some by saturated it in water and disposing like any other chemical.



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[*] posted on 17-11-2015 at 09:15


Add TATP in strong base like cc. NaOH solution. Be careful about the temperature.
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ecos
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[*] posted on 18-11-2015 at 06:31


if it is small amount you can put it in a narrow line and burn it. it will burn fast :) [action time]
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OneEyedPyro
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[*] posted on 18-11-2015 at 07:02


A fairly uneventful as well as safe method is to dissolve in acetone then dump it out on a large flat surface and burn.
As far as destroying it chemically I'm sure there are plenty of ways but why bother?
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[*] posted on 18-11-2015 at 07:48


My choice for a SMALL quantity would be to dissolve in toluene, spread on a LARGE PIECE of cardboard in a safe place, ignite a dry area of the cardboard and get back.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=36743&a...


----
Quote:

While TATP is insoluble in water, it is very soluble in both chlo- roform and toluene (see Table 1 for solubility measurements made at room temperature for various common solvents; the results agree reasonably well with those reported (2)). In seeking a solvent that would enable TATP to be handled with reduced risk of accidental initiation, toluene appeared to offer both high solubility and low volatility. By contrast, chloroform is very volatile. Toluene was therefore selected for closer study. In order to ascertain the hazards posed by handling toluene solutions of TATP, trials were per- formed in an attempt to detonate these solutions using a no. 8 det- onator (see Experimental). It was observed that saturated solutions of TATP in toluene (~28 wt%) could not be initiated, and it is therefore concluded that TATP can be rendered relatively benign by dissolution in toluene. Such solutions are chemically stable and may be stored in a closed vessel provided the cap/stopper is leak- proof; leakage would result in evaporation of the toluene leaving a dangerous residue of TATP on the outer surface of the vessel. However, should such a residue be formed, it may be allowed to sublime away in a well-ventilated area. It is recommended that a seal with an inert plastic disc insert be used in order to avoid solid TATP crystallizing within the threads of a screw cap.

[Edited on 18-11-2015 by Bert]




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[*] posted on 18-11-2015 at 09:21


Sure beats draining it down the road's drainage.

Still waiting on that bang...
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Rhodanide
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[*] posted on 19-11-2015 at 06:10


Quote: Originally posted by Aurium  
Sure beats draining it down the road's drainage.

Still waiting on that bang...



rip TMNT.
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[*] posted on 19-11-2015 at 06:12


Quote: Originally posted by Detonationology  
How much are you talking about? I have got rid of some by saturated it in water and disposing like any other chemical.




That doesn't sound like a very smart idea... I would have done that earlier IF AP was soluble in water, but it is quite the opposite. (I hope you didn't pour it down the drain!)
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[*] posted on 19-11-2015 at 06:13


Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
A fairly uneventful as well as safe method is to dissolve in acetone then dump it out on a large flat surface and burn.
As far as destroying it chemically I'm sure there are plenty of ways but why bother?



Good point.
So, it's soluble in acetone?
Interesting. I'll give it a try. Thanks!
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[*] posted on 19-11-2015 at 06:15


Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
My choice for a SMALL quantity would be to dissolve in toluene, spread on a LARGE PIECE of cardboard in a safe place, ignite a dry area of the cardboard and get back.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=36743&a...


----
Quote:

While TATP is insoluble in water, it is very soluble in both chlo- roform and toluene (see Table 1 for solubility measurements made at room temperature for various common solvents; the results agree reasonably well with those reported (2)). In seeking a solvent that would enable TATP to be handled with reduced risk of accidental initiation, toluene appeared to offer both high solubility and low volatility. By contrast, chloroform is very volatile. Toluene was therefore selected for closer study. In order to ascertain the hazards posed by handling toluene solutions of TATP, trials were per- formed in an attempt to detonate these solutions using a no. 8 det- onator (see Experimental). It was observed that saturated solutions of TATP in toluene (~28 wt%) could not be initiated, and it is therefore concluded that TATP can be rendered relatively benign by dissolution in toluene. Such solutions are chemically stable and may be stored in a closed vessel provided the cap/stopper is leak- proof; leakage would result in evaporation of the toluene leaving a dangerous residue of TATP on the outer surface of the vessel. However, should such a residue be formed, it may be allowed to sublime away in a well-ventilated area. It is recommended that a seal with an inert plastic disc insert be used in order to avoid solid TATP crystallizing within the threads of a screw cap.

[Edited on 18-11-2015 by Bert]





I don't have any Toluene, I do have a bit of chloroform in a syringe, enough to dissolve it, but chloroform isn't flammable... is it?
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[*] posted on 19-11-2015 at 06:16


Quote: Originally posted by kecskesajt  
Add TATP in strong base like cc. NaOH solution. Be careful about the temperature.




Perfect. I've got extra NaOH. :>

And you're positive this works?
Can I get rid of it by dumping it down the drain afterwards?
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[*] posted on 19-11-2015 at 07:04


Yes it works.However, I dumped TATP into dilute NaOH solution so it wasn't so fast. And it will generate a lot of oxygen(if not ozone) gas.

So do it outside. After that, put some vinegar or HCl into the NaOH until you get a pH about 8(mild alkaline).After that, you can dump it.
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[*] posted on 19-11-2015 at 09:20


It's not highly soluble in acetone by any means, it would take quite a bit to dissolve a large amount.
Toluene is probably a better choice.

[Edited on 19-11-2015 by OneEyedPyro]
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[*] posted on 19-11-2015 at 11:46


Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
It's not highly soluble in acetone by any means, it would take quite a bit to dissolve a large amount.
Toluene is probably a better choice.

[Edited on 19-11-2015 by OneEyedPyro]





That's a shame, because I don't have any Toluene, nor can I buy it from anywhere i know of.
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[*] posted on 19-11-2015 at 11:49


Quote: Originally posted by kecskesajt  
Yes it works.However, I dumped TATP into dilute NaOH solution so it wasn't so fast. And it will generate a lot of oxygen(if not ozone) gas.

So do it outside. After that, put some vinegar or HCl into the NaOH until you get a pH about 8(mild alkaline).After that, you can dump it.



Hm. Interesting. Thanks! :)
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[*] posted on 19-11-2015 at 13:55


Well, if you only have a few grams to get rid of it's not an issue but if it's a large amount it could be considered a waste of acetone.

Chemically destroying TATP seems well, potentially dangerous.

At least with the burning method there's no risk of detonation once the TATP has dissolved.
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[*] posted on 20-11-2015 at 04:40


Quote:

That's a shame, because I don't have any Toluene, nor can I buy it from anywhere i know of.


In USA, any paint store probably sells toluene, any big box building supply store such as Home Depot, Lowes, Menards has toluene in the paint department as well.




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[*] posted on 20-11-2015 at 06:05


Could anyone explain me why not to trow it done the drain with a lot of water? I don't see it drying in the pipes anywhere as there is always water around, it is not a heavy metal and it will decompose by the time it gets to the waste plant.
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[*] posted on 20-11-2015 at 09:39


Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
Well, if you only have a few grams to get rid of it's not an issue but if it's a large amount it could be considered a waste of acetone.

Chemically destroying TATP seems well, potentially dangerous.

At least with the burning method there's no risk of detonation once the TATP has dissolved.



It's 67.2 grams.
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[*] posted on 20-11-2015 at 09:41


Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
Quote:

That's a shame, because I don't have any Toluene, nor can I buy it from anywhere i know of.


In USA, any paint store probably sells toluene, any big box building supply store such as Home Depot, Lowes, Menards has toluene in the paint department as well.



Alright, I'll look there. I've got a Home Depot ~30 mins away, so I'll take a look. Thanks!
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[*] posted on 20-11-2015 at 10:18


Quote: Originally posted by Tetra  
Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
Well, if you only have a few grams to get rid of it's not an issue but if it's a large amount it could be considered a waste of acetone.

Chemically destroying TATP seems well, potentially dangerous.

At least with the burning method there's no risk of detonation once the TATP has dissolved.



It's 67.2 grams.


May I ask why you created this massive an amount of TATP?

I understand you want to get rid of it now, but even as far as "large scale" can go, for TATP (or any primary), that is an enormous amount.
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[*] posted on 21-11-2015 at 09:59


Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Could anyone explain me why not to trow it done the drain with a lot of water? I don't see it drying in the pipes anywhere as there is always water around, it is not a heavy metal and it will decompose by the time it gets to the waste plant.

True,
As a peroxydic organic material, in the drains and WC exhaust pipes full of anaerobic bacteria, CTAP (CycloTriAcetonPeroxyde and not TCAP tricycloacetonperoxyde)will not last long...the reducing power of those microorganisms.




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[*] posted on 21-11-2015 at 11:30


A couple of ounces of acetone peroxide.

I don't think I'd want it in my plumbing, even wet.

Any one else remember a story about some guy poling a boat on a rocky river bottom down stream of the waste water outlet at a late 19th century USA nitroglycerin factory. Supposedly found a pool of nitro on the river bottom that settled out of the discharged wash waters- Need to find the reference again.




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[*] posted on 21-11-2015 at 14:42


He was Poling, so i guess there might have been a bit of stone that got stuck into his wooden pole, and then he found a pocket of nitro, stuck the pole in, pushed hard, connecting the stone with another stone ...

I thought the Wright Brothers were the first to Fly ?




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