Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  2
Author: Subject: Where does one begin ?
OneEyedPyro
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 177
Registered: 7-10-2015
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 29-11-2015 at 15:45


Typically the milling balls aren't launched with much velocity when ball mills explode.

Besides, you can mill the charcoal/sulfur separately from the KNO₃ then diaper it together if you're really worried about it.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
aga
Forum Drunkard
*****




Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 29-11-2015 at 15:53


It's One tiny (3L ?) mill
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=61...

I'm not overly keen on Cleaning, so the charcoal will get milled first, then the S and KNO3 will be added, so all milled together.

With water at some point.

Not sure When that should be.

[Edited on 29-11-2015 by aga]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
NedsHead
National Hazard
****




Posts: 409
Registered: 9-12-2014
Location: South Australia
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 29-11-2015 at 17:52


Personally I would mill the Sulphur first unless you purchase it already very finely powdered, my Sulphur comes in the form of sugar sized grains and is always the most difficult to mix intimately, Are there benefits to milling black powder wet? I'm guessing it would be a lot safer while milling but does it have any affect on the end product?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
TheAlchemistPirate
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 151
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: The point of no return
Member Is Offline

Mood: Enigmatic

[*] posted on 29-11-2015 at 19:34


I believe a small amount of water(VERY SMALL!) is tolerable when ball milling, the advantage being that it is somewhat safer. With too much water, I think the powder starts clumping together and doesn't mix well at all. Of course there are many different methods of making BP so to say whether water is detrimental (in whatever part of the process) or not depends on the method.



"Is this even science anymore?!"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
OneEyedPyro
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 177
Registered: 7-10-2015
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 29-11-2015 at 22:08


Quote: Originally posted by TheAlchemistPirate  
I believe a small amount of water(VERY SMALL!) is tolerable when ball milling, the advantage being that it is somewhat safer. With too much water, I think the powder starts clumping together and doesn't mix well at all. Of course there are many different methods of making BP so to say whether water is detrimental (in whatever part of the process) or not depends on the method.


In my experience it mills down to an even consistancy almost regardless of how much water is added, the real problem with adding water is that upon drying crystals form changing the burn characteristics for the worse.

As far as I'm concerned adding water is unnecessarry assuming you're using non-sparking media, a liquid that doesn't dissolve the KNO₃ would be much better than water.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
aga
Forum Drunkard
*****




Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 30-11-2015 at 08:01


From what i;ve read, producing 'grains' seems to be the objective, so once milled & mixed with a tiny amount of water sprayed in, i think i'll try to squeeze it through an aluminium plate with lots of holes drilled in it, a bit like a potato 'ricer'.

After drying (?) these strings, the process appears to be to tumble them together to get them to break into bits and rub together to get a more 'round' shape.

The water should get some of the KNO3 to dissolve slightly and coat the S and C particles, helping keep the grain in shape.




View user's profile View All Posts By User
KesterDraconis
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 78
Registered: 27-3-2015
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 30-11-2015 at 09:48


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
From what i;ve read, producing 'grains' seems to be the objective, so once milled & mixed with a tiny amount of water sprayed in, i think i'll try to squeeze it through an aluminium plate with lots of holes drilled in it, a bit like a potato 'ricer'.

After drying (?) these strings, the process appears to be to tumble them together to get them to break into bits and rub together to get a more 'round' shape.

The water should get some of the KNO3 to dissolve slightly and coat the S and C particles, helping keep the grain in shape.


I personally mix all of my sulfur and charcoal together in a ball mill. I make a solution of KNO3 that is very saturated, then mix in the sulfur and charcoal. I then add a little alcohol and cool the mix.

I can then dry it or add more alcohol to get the mixture to a consistency at which I can press/rub it over a mesh of wires (I use an old window screen actually) and this creates little grains of black powder. I catch them in a big plastic bucket under the screen, and then dry it in the sun.

I find it burns rather well, vanishing quite quickly in a puff of smoke.

[Edited on 30-11-2015 by KesterDraconis]

[Edited on 30-11-2015 by KesterDraconis]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
aga
Forum Drunkard
*****




Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 30-11-2015 at 11:21


Quote: Originally posted by KesterDraconis  
consistency at which I can press/rub it over a mesh of wires (I use an old window screen actually) and this creates little grains of black powder. I catch them in a big plastic bucket under the screen, and then dry it in the sun.

I find it burns rather well, vanishing quite quickly in a puff of smoke.

That sounds like an excellent plan.

Saves a lot of drilling, and my original notion of pressing the 'paste' through the holy Al sheet using a hydraulic car jack was too worrying to attempt : the sheer pressure could cause localised heating, possibly sufficiently strong to cause ignition.

Plastic mesh is a great idea.

Can easily get different mesh sizes too, so cheap and versatile.

I like it.




View user's profile View All Posts By User
TheAlchemistPirate
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 151
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: The point of no return
Member Is Offline

Mood: Enigmatic

[*] posted on 30-11-2015 at 12:38


Remember that adding binders like dextrin make Corning easier and makes the grains much stronger



"Is this even science anymore?!"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
aga
Forum Drunkard
*****




Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 30-11-2015 at 12:41


Binders ?

Sounds like i need to complete step #1 first before i'll even know what difference a binder makes to shape/burn rate.

Presumably the addition of a 4th (or more) ingredient alters the chemistry ?




View user's profile View All Posts By User
TheAlchemistPirate
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 151
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: The point of no return
Member Is Offline

Mood: Enigmatic

[*] posted on 30-11-2015 at 16:14


The more fuels you add, the more oxidizer you should add. Usually, only 1-2% of the mixture should be dextrin. IIRC if you include dextrin add 2-3% more oxidizer.




"Is this even science anymore?!"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2880
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline

Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic

[*] posted on 3-12-2015 at 12:36


I used 11000 rpm electric coffee grinder for my KNO3 (or KClO3) one one side and C, S (and CaCO3 in the case of KClO3 black powder) on the other side; then I mix oxydiser and fuel (+ stabilizer).

You can have plenty of fun with the following, it is good to go that way chronologically:
-Nitrate suggar
-Black powder
-Chlorate suggar
-Chlorate black powder
-Silver acetylide nitrate complex
-Mercury fulminate
-Nickel nitrate hydrazinate
-Alkyl Amine nitrates and perchlorates
-Ammonals
-Nitronaphtalenes and nitroaromatics alone or with chlorates
-TNB, TNT and TNP
-Nitrocellulose
-Nitric esters (methyl, ethyl, glycol, glycerol, erythritol, nitroisobutan-triol, xylitol, mannitol, sorbitol, ...)





PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
aga
Forum Drunkard
*****




Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 3-12-2015 at 15:24


Nitrocellulose looks simple.

Then again, i have not made any, so do not know.

An esy way to fix that is readily available !




View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  2

  Go To Top