Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: AsI3 solution reaction
quantumcorespacealchemyst
Banned Shitposter





Posts: 213
Registered: 17-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 16:06
AsI3 solution reaction


(EDIT:


137mg AsI3
15-20ml H20
82mg UI3
16.5mg Ho

20°C added AsI3 to H20
20°C added UI3 to mixture
warmed to 31-32°C
~32°C added Ho to mixture
after no reaction, fizzing started gradually, efferescent, not vigorous
arsine smell detected
flask moved outdoors to 0°C)


to be careful, at 20°C, a small amount of red paste of AsI3 (presumably with some excess iodine still), 0.137g or 0.000300679 mol AsI3 was added to a small amount of water, about 10-20ml.
after using a thermometer to crush/stir and letting it sit for some time, the flask was taken outside and 0.082g of UI3, or 0.000132527 mols UI3, was added (in the form of a stone like, dark purple/black clump). there was seemingly no immediate reaction and not after using the thermomoter to smush it. it was let sit inside for a while and heated from 20°C to 27°C then the heat was stopped to let it reach the sand bath temp and then back towards room temperature. it reached 31°C before 0.00165g Holmium, Ho, metal was added as two tiny slivers/shavings. the temperature hung around 31°C and above, a little towards 32°C. it was uncertain if the persistance of temperature was to the sand bath finishing it's heat transferal (probable), or there being a heat releasing reaction. the sand bath heater/instatherm reached about 58°C to~80°F at some parts before cesation, so it is more likely, seemingly as there was no immediate reaction.
after some time, there was some bubbling forming from the metal peices.
while it was possibly hydrogen, it was wondered if it was arsine, AsH3, due to the similarity of the reaction to using zinc as a catalyst to produce it in acid/oxidant. with some wafts from the flask, as the bubbling increased a little, it was an arsine smell, and the flask was taken outside, which was about 0°C to -5°C.


i calculated the arsine release, mg/m^3
at around 0.411167368 mg/m^3
and around 0.13680408 mg/m^3 if Ho:AsH3
if a 57m^3 room was the setting and assuming full dispersal.
actual mg calculations were
23.43654mg max
7.797833mg if it was dependant on Holmium and not if any was catalysed by the Ho.

PEL (permissible is 0.2 mg/m^3)


the color in the flask, after continuing to react outdoors, is slightly bluer/blue greener (EDIT: the solution is bright yellow with yellow AsI3 undissolved in it, there is no blueish color, it may have been light refraction or something different. i had thought there was a bluish tint, while fishing out a piece of bark that blew into the vessel ), with the predomenant yellow/orange from the original color of the AsI3 solution.
also not all the AsI3 dissolved in the water, perhaps to the slow hydrogenation to arsenous acid and HI, solubility or equilibrium. the UI3 seems to have broken up a bit/declumped.


what seems to be interesting here is that.

reportedly, arsine is kinetically stable and not thermodynamically stable, with 2As --> 3H2 +2As.

working with some equations, it seems there is a connection between

Ho + AsI3 --> HoI3 + As
Ho + H3AsO3 --> HoAsO3 +1.5H2

[3H2 + 2As ]*.5 is 1.5H2 + As

also. AsI3 + 3H2O --> As2O3 + 6HI

combining was
3AsI3 + 3H2O +3Ho --> HoAsO3 + 6HI + HoI3 + 1.5H2 + As
giving
3AsI3 + 3H2O +3Ho --> HoAsO3 + 6HI + HoI3 + AsH3

possibly the UI3 will add complex anions and cations to make mineral type salts. and displace the As to leave holmium uranium salts or complex salts with Arsenic oxides.


[Edited on 4-4-2016 by quantumcorespacealchemyst]

[Edited on 4-4-2016 by quantumcorespacealchemyst]

[Edited on 4-4-2016 by quantumcorespacealchemyst]

[Edited on 4-4-2016 by quantumcorespacealchemyst]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
elementcollector1
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2619
Registered: 28-12-2011
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline

Mood: Molten

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 16:13


I'm incredibly confused. Was this two days late?



Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Ge
View user's profile View All Posts By User
quantumcorespacealchemyst
Banned Shitposter





Posts: 213
Registered: 17-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 16:29


i don't know. i had a small amount of AsI3 with excess iodine, in a mortar and pestle releasing iodine and turning red. when it was much more red, today, i weighed and re-jarred it, using 137mg to do the experiment.

oh, you mean april fools.

[Edited on 4-4-2016 by quantumcorespacealchemyst]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
quantumcorespacealchemyst
Banned Shitposter





Posts: 213
Registered: 17-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 16:37


what i found interesting is the equation shows where the arsine precursors are and somehow they react against thermodynamic stability to form arsine. i guess the holmium is catalyzing it and when the holmium is consumed by the reaction, the arsine production will cease.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
quantumcorespacealchemyst
Banned Shitposter





Posts: 213
Registered: 17-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 17:11


with the UI3, maybe there will be possibly variations on,

"Uranous Arsenate, UH2(AsO4)2.2H2O, may be prepared by digesting freshly precipitated uranous hydroxide with cold dilute arsenic acid; or by adding arsenic acid to a solution of the hydroxide in sulphuric acid. It yields pale green needle-shaped crystals, insoluble in water but soluble in excess of arsenic acid. A tetrahydrate, UH2(AsO4)2.4H2O, is formed as a green precipitate when an alkali arsenate is added to a solution of a uranous salt."
http://uranium.atomistry.com/uranous_arsenate.html



"The orthoar senate, (UO2)3(AsO4)2.12H2O, occurs in nature as trogerite. It is yellow in colour, but on heating turns reddish brown with loss of water; on cooling, the product again becomes yellow. It breaks down when heated with water, yielding micaceous leaflets. The compound has been produced artificially. Uranyl hydrogen arsenate, UO2HAsO4.4H2O, is obtained as a pale yellow powder by the addition of uranyl acetate to a solution of arsenic acid or sodium arsenate. It is insoluble in water and acetic acid.



Uranyl dihydrogen arsenate, UO2(H2AsO4)2.3H2O, separates in small yellow crystals when a solution of uranyl acetate or nitrate containing an excess of arsenic acid is concentrated. The crystals lose their water of crystallisation at 150° C.

Uranyl pyroarsenate, (UO2)2As2O7, remains as a yellow powder when the arsenate, UO2HAsO4.4H2O, or ammonium uranyl arsenate (see below), is heated."
http://uranium.atomistry.com/uranyl_arsenates.html





"Uranyl Metarsenite, UO2(AsO2)2, results as a yellow precipitate when a solution of sodium metarsenite is added to one of uranyl nitrate. It is insoluble in ammonia, but dissolves readily in acids."
http://uranium.atomistry.com/uranyl_metarsenite.html



"Several double arsenates occur in nature: zeunerite, Cu(UO2)2(AsO4)2.8H2O; uranospinite, Ca(UO2)2(AsO4)2.8H2O, corresponding to the phosphates, chalcolite and autunite; and walpurgite, a basic bismuth uranyl arsenate. Compounds having the same composition as zeunerite and uranospinite may be formed artificially by mixing a solution of precipitated copper carbonate, or of lime, in excess of arsenic acid with a solution of uranyl acetate or nitrate; on allowing to crystallise, rectangular laminae are obtained. By similar means the ammonium salt, NH4UO2AsO4, containing 3 and 5H2O, has been prepared. The potassium salt is not easily obtained, since the product resulting from double decomposition between potassium arsenate and a uranyl salt varies in composition with the concentration of the solutions. The salt, KUO2AsO4.3.5H2"
http://uranium.atomistry.com/complex_uranyl_arsenates.html

it is possible the yellow color is from some sort of uranium salt, it is hard to tell if the color is the same, it is dark out now, and using a flashlight to check on the reaction seems to show bright yellow now, but it is very possibly the same yellow that it was when there was light out. there is still some bubbles around the top that haven't left solution but it doesn't seem to be fizzing much or at all.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
j_sum1
Administrator
********




Posts: 4729
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Oz
Member Is Online

Mood: Metastable, and that's good enough.

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 17:21


Who the hell has arsenic iodide, uranium triiodide and holmium just lying around?

If there was a specific question here, someone might hazard an answer. But I rather suspect you are on your own with this one. Unless you stumble on something spectacular of significance, your experiments are unlikely to be duplicated.




If you are interested, take a look at the latest offering from sum_lab:
A primer on metals and non-metals with at least one novel experiment.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
quantumcorespacealchemyst
Banned Shitposter





Posts: 213
Registered: 17-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 17:37


the preparation of the AsI3 was guided by others input and

"Fluorine and chlorine react vigorously with arsenic to form the trihalides and, in the case of fluorine, some pentafluoride. The reactions are accompanied by incandescence. Bromine and iodine also yield the trihalides, but the reactions occur much less readily and it is necessary to warm the powdered mixture of arsenic and iodine. "


also, regarding the dissolution of AsI3 in water


"Although the aqueous solution appears to be stable and does not darken on exposure to air, if allowed to evaporate slowly in an open vessel crystals of an oxyiodide, 2AsOI.3As2O3.12H2O, remain. It has been shown, however, that a very dilute aqueous solution of arsenic triiodide is almost completely hydrolysed and is essentially a solution of arsenious acid and hydriodic acid in equilibrium with a small quantity of the triiodide. In freshly prepared solutions this equilibrium is reached within a few minutes, and for an approximately 0.1N-solution the pH value is 1.1, which is the same as that of a 0.1N-solution of hydriodic acid. In the presence of an excess of hydriodic acid spontaneous evaporation leaves only the triiodide. Solutions in many organic solvents, for example acetone, benzene, glacial acetic acid, are unstable, decomposing with liberation of iodine, as in the case of carbon disulphide solutions mentioned above; the decomposition is accelerated by the presence of water or oxygen, but is apparently unaffected by light. When sulphur is added to a solution of arsenic triiodide in carbon disulphide, orange-coloured crystals of a sulphiodide of melting point 104° C. and of composition AsI3.3S8 separate; this compound crystallises in the trigonal system, the dimensions of the unit cell, which contains one molecule, being a = 14.2, b = 24.6 and c = 4.48 A. "
http://arsenic.atomistry.com/arsenic_triiodide.html

i thought i had another source, but the last quote mentions "if allowed to evaporate slowly in an open vessel crystals of an oxyiodide, 2AsOI.3As2O3.12H2O, remain."

my hopes are to aquire mixed arsenic, uranium and holmium salts. i originally intended to use thulium; however, i am currently unable to find my piece of it. holmium works out, as the tiny, busted off, slivers in the sample jar, had a combination within their pieces of 16-17mg which fit my theoretical calculation to use phi times less mols (1/phi) of holmium to replace the arsenic (because ratios in crystals are odd and not seemingly integer based). i have been curious to know AsOI type groups with metal iodides/oxyiodides would form in crystal growth. i hope to get nice fluorescent crystals.

[Edited on 4-4-2016 by quantumcorespacealchemyst]

[Edited on 4-4-2016 by quantumcorespacealchemyst]

[Edited on 4-4-2016 by quantumcorespacealchemyst]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
quantumcorespacealchemyst
Banned Shitposter





Posts: 213
Registered: 17-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 17:55


to recap

137mg AsI3
15-20ml H20
82mg UI3
16.5mg Ho

20°C added AsI3 to H20
20°C added UI3 to mixture
warmed to 31-32°C
~32°C added Ho to mixture
after no reaction, fizzing started gradually, efferescent, not vigorous
arsine smell detected
flask moved outdoors to 0°C
View user's profile View All Posts By User
quantumcorespacealchemyst
Banned Shitposter





Posts: 213
Registered: 17-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 18:07


j_sum_one, i made them from realgar ore, uranium metal and holmium metal sample

i had the notes somewhere or put it here about getting the arsenic from realgar, then iodinating it. the uranium iodide preparation is on here somewhere (i think), where uranium metal was refluxed in acetone with iodine added, evaporated and stored in a septum-ed flask (the reaction vessel). the holmium was metal.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
quantumcorespacealchemyst
Banned Shitposter





Posts: 213
Registered: 17-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 19:51


the flask was brought inside and transferred to a two stage window, with the outside screens left open, to get near ambient outside temperature cycles and vent the arsine which is still smelled near the flask opening. there is a greyish or darker hue to the mixture than before, perhaps due to the UI3 breaking up/dispersing into tinier pieces.


the following photos are after bringing it inside, the one photo is when the AsI3 was first added to H2O

GOPR2984.JPG - 1.1MBGOPR2987.JPG - 1.2MBGOPR2988.JPG - 1.2MBGOPR2982.JPG - 1.3MB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
j_sum1
Administrator
********




Posts: 4729
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Oz
Member Is Online

Mood: Metastable, and that's good enough.

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 20:17


Wait...
You smelled the arsine???

It's been nice knowing you.




If you are interested, take a look at the latest offering from sum_lab:
A primer on metals and non-metals with at least one novel experiment.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
quantumcorespacealchemyst
Banned Shitposter





Posts: 213
Registered: 17-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 20:29


whiff, it shows odor by oxidation in air in concentration above 0.5ppm, so a whiff from wafting by the flask neck is sufficient. it isn't chronic, but acute, the whiff, so fatality is hopefully not a concern.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
j_sum1
Administrator
********




Posts: 4729
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Oz
Member Is Online

Mood: Metastable, and that's good enough.

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 20:48


Quote:
From Wikipedia
Symptoms of poisoning appear after exposure to concentrations of 0.5 ppm. There is little information on the chronic toxicity of arsine, although it is reasonable to assume that, in common with other arsenic compounds, a long-term exposure could lead to arsenicosis

Occupational exposure limits are 0.05ppm for most jurisdictions.




If you are interested, take a look at the latest offering from sum_lab:
A primer on metals and non-metals with at least one novel experiment.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
quantumcorespacealchemyst
Banned Shitposter





Posts: 213
Registered: 17-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 21:02


LCLo (Lowest published)
250 ppm (human, 30 min)
300 ppm (human, 5 min)
25 ppm (human, 30 min)[3]
US health exposure limits (NIOSH):
PEL (Permissible)
TWA 0.05 ppm (0.2 mg/m3)[1]
REL (Recommended)
C 0.002 mg/m3 [15-minute][1]
IDLH (Immediate danger
3 ppm[1]

from wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsine
View user's profile View All Posts By User
j_sum1
Administrator
********




Posts: 4729
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Oz
Member Is Online

Mood: Metastable, and that's good enough.

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 21:52


The point is that this appears to be a poorly controlled experiment:
  • Poorly framed in terms of what the experimental objectives are
  • Poor control of variables
  • Poor management of wastes and hazards

How do you know that what you are smelling is at the levels that you claim? Or even if they are what you think they are?

Addressing these three issues might make for some interesting science. But at face value it looks more likely that you will become a statistic than your experimentation will produce meaningful statistics.




If you are interested, take a look at the latest offering from sum_lab:
A primer on metals and non-metals with at least one novel experiment.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
woelen
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 6809
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

[*] posted on 3-4-2016 at 23:59


@quantumcorespacealchemyst: My issue with your posts is that they read as if you randomly mix some (dangerous) chemicals with each other and see what happens. If you want to go beyond the beginner's level, then you really must describe what you want to achieve with your experiments and how you expect it to happen. Right now, you write that you add AsI3, UI3 and Ho to each other. Do not expect from others to have any idea why you choose this particular set of reactants. It now just seems like randomly tossing in some exotic stuff and seeing what happens.

You would help yourself if you tried to make a post, including objectives and a plan, followed by the experimental outline and description, finalized with results. And I would suggest you to do so first with less dangerous and less expensive chemicals.

Another thing is that your starting materials have very questionable composition. You say they are AsI3 and UI3. I would say, that at best the materials contain some AsI3 and some UI3. You made AsI3 from realgar. How did you do that? How can you be sure that your material is not just impure realgar with some iodine and other stuff mixed in? The same is true for your "UI3".

---------------------------------------------------------------

Arsenic compounds indeed can be found fairly easily on eBay as natural mineral. Orpiment and realgar both are arsenic sulfides. Especially orpiment is quite affordable and this is nearly 100% pure As2S3, which is yellow. Realgar also is available, but this is much more expensive. An example of nearly 300 grams of arsenic sulfide (mostly orpiment, contaminsated with slight amounts of realgar): http://www.ebay.nl/itm/295g-Flamboyant-Golden-Yellow-ORPIMEN...

I myself collected appr. 200 grams of As2S3 from eBay, using the kind of sources posted above.

If you want to experiment with this material, be VERY careful. These materials can be dissolved in acids, giving H2S. Arsenic remains behind in solution, but in strongly reducing environments, also some AsH3 can escape from the liquid! H2S itself also is quite toxic and insidious, but it can be handled (e.g. collect it in a solution of NaOH, or do the experiment outside on a breezy day).




The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
bismuthate
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 803
Registered: 28-9-2013
Location: the island of stability
Member Is Offline

Mood: self reacting

[*] posted on 4-4-2016 at 06:17
Marsh Test


Just pass H2 over the experiment in a closed experimental system and burn the resulting gas on a watch glass
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_test
It's just a modified marsh test that doesn't involve you sniffing arsenic. This would tell you if you have any arsine.




I'm not a liar, I'm just an enthusiastic celebrant of opposite day.
I post pictures of chemistry on instagram as bismuthate. http://iconosquare.com/bismuthate
or this viewer if you don't have an instagram (it sucks though) http://web.stagram.com/n/bismuthate
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
quantumcorespacealchemyst
Banned Shitposter





Posts: 213
Registered: 17-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-4-2016 at 21:18


well, it's quite simple really. to get As and U cation/cation containing salts. it was mentioned post. i detailed it thoroughly.

uranium makes anion, cations with oxygen in them.
so does arsenic
in nature, it is observed.
mixed/complex, whatever the nomenclature. the concept that there are minerals that have a bunch of different anion/cation combinations, and with different percentages of inclusion of metals that replace other metals.

look at mindat.org

if you look at the reaction i wrote out, it shows the idea i was working on.


i do notice that while ethenone generation, to make acetic anhydride, receives critical thought, knowledge sharing and interest, this does not.


heres the ethenone info

"PEL (Permissible)
TWA 0.5 ppm (0.9 mg/m3)[1]
REL (Recommended)
TWA 0.5 ppm (0.9 mg/m3) ST 1.5 ppm (3 mg/m3)[1]
IDLH (Immediate danger
5 ppm[1]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethenone

"Exposure to concentrated levels causes humans to experience irritation of body parts such as the eye, nose, throat and lungs. Extended toxicity testing on mice, rats, guinea pigs and rabbits showed that ten-minute exposures to concentrations of freshly generated ethenone as low as 0.2 mg/liter (116 ppm) may produce a high percentage of deaths in small animals. These findings put ethenone in the same order of toxicity as phosgene (0.2–20 mg/liter) and hydrogen cyanide (0.2-0.5 mg/liter). Death is from pulmonary edema and is entirely similar to, but much more rapid than is the case with phosgene poisoning.[6]

Occupational exposure limits are set at 0.5 ppm (0.9 mg/m3) over an eight-hour time-weighted average.[7] An IDLH limit is set at 5 ppm, as this is the lowest concentration productive of a clinically relevant physiologic response in humans.[8]"



maybe small animals is different. maybe though the correlation between the small animal data in ethenone and arsine will be more comparable.

arsine
"LC50 (Median concentration)
120 ppm (rat, 10 min)
77 ppm (mouse, 10 min)
201 ppm (rabbit, 10 min)
108 ppm (dog, 10 min)[3]"

ethenone
"LCLo (Lowest published)
23 ppm (mouse, 30 min)
53 ppm (rabbit, 2 hr)
53 ppm (guinea pig, 2 hr)
750 ppm (cat, 10 min)
200 ppm (monkey, 10 min)
50 ppm (mouse, 10 min)
1000 ppm (rabbit, 10 min)[2]"




the focus of the experiment wasn't arsine production. it was mentioned to show that it was thought of. the flask was moved outside for that reason. the thread was intended to document the reaction like a notebook.




woelen, i don't randomly mix things, i think about it. i do however, not write well of what i am doing. there is my mind, looking for connections of reaction mechanisms and then there is what i type. it doesn't usually come out so well. i do try to write it down. explanation is tiresome.

i did not have chloroform at the moment and i was curious about if acetone could dissolve it without reacting. my guess was no. but that's not good enough, i want to know why. what does it do to acetone and how. i figure it may not react immediately, but it will over time. i also wonder, is it stable untill given the right circumstances, like a metal catalyst, or electricity, or UV radiation.? i figure that is basic, basic in a sense that it is a specifically targeted area that has basics to learn. i figure, i want to be able to imagine this compound so that i know what it is doing and that i am not dealt a surprise. AsI3 seems to be a unique compound, unique in properties, related to phosphorous, but not the same. something about arsenic being a metalloid seems to mean it is special in a way that phosphorous isn't. the fact that is produces a hydride so easily is intriguing enough. also, that it is not so reactive in air the way phosphorous is. my inquiries here are in the hopes that i can understand it's nature and be safe while using it.
i was looking for a strong lewis acid that was an iodide at first, boron triiodide seemed more difficult to use, uranium triiodide seemed to be one.
the fact that uranium iodide can do things that other iodides can't is what makes me interested in it. i was first interested in inorganic chemistry and how to make crystals. lasers and all sorts of stuff come from them and i see the physics and chemistry as the same. i believe that understanding things that crosslink, kind of like a wikipedia page, will give a good understanding. i figured that uranium can be made into fluorescent crystals if it makes salts in water with oxygen and hydrogen. arsenic occurs quite frequently in replacement of phosphorous in minerals. very simply, the hope to get an arsenous(ic, ate, whatever, it is a arsenic group) compound coupled with a uranous(ic, ate, whatever, it is a uranium group) was the idea.

unfortunately, the scientific study of making crystals is seemingly not so referencable as a field in chemistry that has guides in. mindat.org has many natural minerals pictured and referenced.

what i am getting at is nature popped them out and the actual synthesis of these things, in large single crystals, is not something i am finding much/any data about.

if you look at a mineral specimen, it may be clear, like a crystal you would use to make lasers. it might be opaque, it might be clear but have impurities in it. it might have an inter-matrixed structure with many other minerals, all as some clump you may be so lucky to come across.

it may not have a chemical formula you are used to seeing, with decimal points in certain areas. go check out the site mindat.org and you may see.

you may also see there is somewhat of a pattern
the anion or cation groups vary greatly. they may have different metals in mixed oxidation states. they may have different calcogenide substitutions. a phosphate may have some arsenate mixed in and that's a starting idea of the variables that seem to be involved

most important of all, the structure of minerals in nature are limited
by the elements surrounding them.

an element like holmium,
geologically may not be found
around arsenic or uranium.

a very basic idea is that crystals in nature can hopefully be synthesized by humans and that odd ones with weird structures can be made.
by weird i mean unstable and stable forms in the manner of chemistry, like finding pure sodium metal.
or, at least forms with mineral compositions not found in the same regions like getting ungrounded elements and grouping them.

i was hoping somehow iodine would stay in the structure but realistically i dont expect it to.

i don't have a hydrothermal reactor now, but i figure


AsI3 + 3H2O --> H3AsO3 + 3HI, both acids,
the H3 from Arsenous acid could combine
with the I3 from Uranium
making more HI
the Uranium may attach to the arsenate.
in water, though it may be more complex, with the Uranium grabbing Oxygens and becoming some species that would act as the Cation or maybe an Anion.
still maybe not likely, maybe UAsO3.
but maybe more like
(UOx)AsO3

with the holmium, maybe

Hox(UOx)AsO3


while i am still looking for more information on AsI3 in organic solvents.
i figured, observing 137mg hydrolize in water and making salts was a good start for my current knowledge. the holmium catalyzing arsine production was part unexpected and part expected.

if anyone knows a good method for neutralizing arsine safely, like bubbling it into a reagent, please let me know.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
quantumcorespacealchemyst
Banned Shitposter





Posts: 213
Registered: 17-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 5-4-2016 at 00:06


i misplaced my notes and do not remember thoroughly,

the arsenic metal was obtained from realgar and bleach i believe (but i don't remember the specifics, iodine i believe was used to convert the As+3 to As metal). the powder was heavy in the flask, seemingly, compared to a salt. it was grey, dark grey, may have been some black. there was a bit of white but not much, which i figured to be the oxide. i believe i washed it with distilled water and let it dry. that amount was later mixed with iodine. i also misplaced that data.

regarding the UI3. the starting material was a chunk of U238 metal and i figured it might react with the iodine too much with heat. eventually iodine powder was tested on it and after no apparent reaction was covered in the amount calculated, in hopes that it would form iodide on the outside and melt together like the arsenic did. it didn't and when removed and looked at, there was a darker passivation layer. it was later put in a flask, acetone was added, incrementally i believe. then iodine was added in amounts, unless it was solvated iodine solution that was added incrementally to test the reaction. either way, it was none too reactive and slowly, the temperature was brought up in leveled out/equalized amounts untill it seemed still safe to reflux. it was refluxed for some hours, maybe 3hrs or only 1.5hrs, i don't remember. either way, there was still alot of the chunk left and the acetone was darker and more viscous. it was allowed to cool and capped with a rubber septum. later, over a day or a few days, the rest of the metal dissolved. it was then boiled off (all this outside, mind you) to near dryness and again capped with a septum.

what puzzles me is how unreactive it was to the AsI3 solution, that was left to hydrolyze for a little while. it seemed slow to break up. reportedly UI3 is extensively hydroscopic and forms UO2I in air (according to p.538 The Chemistry of Uranium, J.J. Katz, Eugene Rabinowitch). over time it seems to have broken up a bit and mostly dissolved. the bluish green color i mentioned and then doubted may have been partly due to U+4 ion which according to the same text, gives a green color, while the U+3 gives a dark-red solution. anyway it didn't persist and may have had to do with a tiny peice of tree bark that fell in the vessel, which i had to fish out. also, it was suspected in the book source that intermediates such as UOI2 are formed when uranium triiodide reacts in air to form UO2I but no definitive results were available.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
elementcollector1
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2619
Registered: 28-12-2011
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline

Mood: Molten

[*] posted on 5-4-2016 at 14:35


Yes, but... WHY?



Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Ge
View user's profile View All Posts By User
quantumcorespacealchemyst
Banned Shitposter





Posts: 213
Registered: 17-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 5-4-2016 at 18:27


why not? why make any of the stuff on this forum? it's chemistry, i don't think about it that much. it's to learn, right?

edit: i do have an idea that it branches off into organic and inorganic chemistry. i have some distant, unclear ideas where things like, for example mineral synthesis will be important; however, it is all far out until it is understood. if people always ask you why you do what you do, it maybe means they don't understand; however, if you keep doing it, maybe you'll find something. isn't it that most scientific discoveries come from unintended research? i have a hazyness, like a feeling/dream/vision, where things can become real. i guess it is like long term goals or planning. there was a scientific american article about the brain. in short, when people use standard planning and logic, there is most always unexpected hiccups; however when they put it up to hope/faith, the super-conscious runs it all without trouble. i guess that is how i go about it. i don't think about it much besides smaller steps, possibly because it is too overwhelming to not understand completely. and i get stressed out not being able to find and connect the right information when i am trying to. i guess mostly because it feels like i am blocked, getting nothing done and in my seemingly short human life, it feels like i could fail at my will/efforts or something, at my goals, which are hazy. i mean i don't get it in a way either, sometimes i look at what i am doing when i am stressed and held back and i get upset/depressed/stressed that what i am doing and have done was pointless and unimportant, but i have to get past it because it is only excess self criticism or rather defeatism. when it passes and i keep going, i sometimes find, randomly, that i actually have something come through/work out. and i have no clue how i'm doing it. i guess the biggest challenging is not getting down on oneself, there are too many people who could reinforce it and if you listen to them and feedback to your self defeatism, there really doesn't seem a way out of it but hope. hope and careful planning.

[Edited on 6-4-2016 by quantumcorespacealchemyst]

on the other side or whatever, i think encouragement and a concern for safety, are what help people do their dreams/their best. when your the only person who cares and believes in what you do, it can be bad and lonely, but i guess that could be partly my own dealings with coping with my seeming mortality and that it seems no matter where i go, i go alone, and one day into nothingness. which is sad and troublesome for me to overcome, or find/keep hope that there is something beyond this.

[Edited on 6-4-2016 by quantumcorespacealchemyst]

[Edited on 6-4-2016 by quantumcorespacealchemyst]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Texium (zts16)
Administrator
********




Posts: 3011
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: San Marcos, TX
Member Is Offline

Mood: Graduated

[*] posted on 5-4-2016 at 18:51


Quote: Originally posted by quantumcorespacealchemyst  
why not? why make any of the stuff on this forum? it's chemistry, i don't think about it that much. it's to learn, right?
No, it's not chemistry. What you do is the chemical equivalent of a person recording themselves abusing an instrument that they don't know how to play and calling it music.



View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
quantumcorespacealchemyst
Banned Shitposter





Posts: 213
Registered: 17-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 5-4-2016 at 19:09


ba dooba dooba dooba
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Texium (zts16)
Administrator
Thread Moved
5-4-2016 at 20:07

  Go To Top