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Author: Subject: Research to find an alternative to pseudoephedrine, and totally ban sudafed
arkoma
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[*] posted on 13-4-2016 at 14:40


Ah--Nor is to Nitrogen as Deoxy is to Oxygen.

*edit* no that ain't right is it?

[Edited on 4-13-2016 by arkoma]




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OneEyedPyro
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[*] posted on 16-4-2016 at 01:54


The government ought to just step out as far as I'm concerned, regulating what people can and cannot put into their own bodies is simply ludicrous.

Call me an anarchist but if some tweaker wants to unwind with a nice pipe of meth after a long day of stealing copper and picking imaginary bugs from their skin, I say more power to them :D

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arkoma
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[*] posted on 16-4-2016 at 08:40


Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
The government ought to just step out as far as I'm concerned, regulating what people can and cannot put into their own bodies is simply ludicrous.

Call me an anarchist but if some tweaker wants to unwind with a nice pipe of meth after a long day of stealing copper and picking imaginary bugs from their skin, I say more power to them :D



The tweaker ought to go to jail for stealing copper, not for the meth. I tweaked for YEARS (finally out grew it in middle-age, took too fucking long to recover from a binge) but I wasn't a damn thief.




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OneEyedPyro
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[*] posted on 16-4-2016 at 11:33


Seems like most meth users can't mantain a job due to the binge and crash nature of it all, they often end up ripping people or businesses off to support their habit.

Good for you getting off the shit Arkoma, I've watched too many good people lose it all, wifes, kids, houses, businesses, some even slipped into psychosis and completely lost it never to be the same again. It's definately one hell of a drug.

Despite how bad meth is I still don't believe for a second that the government has any business regulating drugs let alone throwing folks in prison for using or even selling them for that matter.
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arkoma
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[*] posted on 17-4-2016 at 11:10


And the thing is, in California I am UNEMPLOYABLE due to a Felony Record for H&S 11359(a)--Possession of Concentrated Cannabis. Not even a crime in California anymore. Makes it almost INFINITELY harder for a "dope head" to integrate into society when they TRULY WANT to.

Believe it or not, here in the "Bible-Belt" folks actually believe I "paid my debt to society". So much for the theory of "Liberal Empathy" because in the PRC (Peoples Republic of California) you pay for the rest of your life.

@Cou--be careful of your "Young Man's" passions, nothing is a black/white issue. There are always shades of grey.

And no, not a delineated Federal power (regulating drugs).




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[*] posted on 13-3-2017 at 16:57


Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  
Quote: Originally posted by Loptr  
Quote: Originally posted by CuReUS  
calm down everyone,don't make a mountain out of a molehill
the government and pharmaceutical companies discovered long back that they could not ban sudafed completely.So they came up with an ingenious solution.
Mix a certain filler with the sudafed so that the moment it hits NaOH(when the cooks try to extract it) it immediately turns into a gooey mass which is impossible to work with.
problem solved.:P

EDIT: wait a minute,I just realised, Wasn't the shake 'n' bake method invented to overcome this very problem :o

In that case the only solution is to go for herbal remedies:D

[Edited on 12-4-2016 by CuReUS]


I think the shake n' bake is the result of a cook finding a paper and having a death wish. I am not exactly sure what you mean by it turning into a gooey mass.

After recently seeing a friend from school in a newspaper after apparently getting caught up in a heroin ring bust, I found out a little more about what he did after school. Shake and bake cook. I had casually heard about this in the news, but I finally looked into it just recently. Holy hell. What the f*ck are they thinking?! And how the hell does adding water to the mixture not screw up the in-situ lithium compound (lithium bronze is what I have seen it referred to--who came up with that name, by the way, it's not bronze)?

Does this even work at all, or are they just ingesting cleaned pseudoephedrine?

[Edited on 12-4-2016 by Loptr]


Done PROPERLY shake and bake works like a CHARM, and when your done the reduced substrate is already in the organic layer.

A dry non polar org solvent, ammonium nitrate, lithium, and the substrate in a 2 litre bottle. Small amounts of DRY sodium hydroxide are added. In situ prep of anhydrous ammonia>>solvated electrons>>reduction of said substrate.

Chemistry, NOT magic.


Choice of solvent is crucial, I would say. Let us consider naphtha (lowest boilng-point distillate of petroleum), and some of its unusual chemical properties... Naphtha's ability to dissolve some substances (*amines?) only increases modestly with heating of the solvent, whilst increasing pressure increases solubilty markedly (I cannot remember where I originally read this). I do know that this is applies true for n n-dimethyltyryptamine.

The reason why the SnB is vented periodically is to reduce pressure; being done under pressure at all would likely suggest the above solubility claim possibly has some merit.

Additionally, "cooks" use the water to (unknowingly) make the reaction proceed at an acceptable rate{1}, rather than just applying gentle heating; by doing so, I am not sure whether the necessary activation energy is achieved, or whether the ?equilibrium constant? shifts.

I am pretty sure one of the more knowledgeable guys here will correct me where necessary. I hope that is not in too many places.

Source: {1} National Geographic (2011). American Underworld, Season1 Episode1:Homemade Illegal Drugs (31:35 - 36:35).

PS.
Funniest ignorant statement = *33:40 - 34:15* :
Interviewer : "What would you say if I told you to put that lithium on your tongue?"
Cook : "I would tell you to go to hell"
Interviewer : " Yet when you mix them together in that bottle, they make a drug that gets you high. How do you explain that?"
Cook : "There is no explanation for it..."

Hilarious.
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CuReUS
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[*] posted on 14-3-2017 at 02:35


Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  
Ah--Nor is to Nitrogen as Deoxy is to Oxygen.
*edit* no that ain't right is it?

Even I thought that analogy was wrong but I wasn't sure.That's why I gave shulgin's reference so that people didn't think it was my idea.
Quote: Originally posted by MrBlank  

Additionally, "cooks" use the water to (unknowingly) make the reaction proceed at an acceptable rate{1}, rather than just applying gentle heating; by doing so, I am not sure whether the necessary activation energy is achieved, or whether the ?equilibrium constant? shifts.

I think the water is added to remove the oxide layer on Li to make it more reactive and kickstart the reaction.
Quote:
Funniest ignorant statement = *33:40 - 34:15* :
Interviewer : "What would you say if I told you to put that lithium on your tongue?"
Cook : "I would tell you to go to hell"
Interviewer : " Yet when you mix them together in that bottle, they make a drug that gets you high. How do you explain that?"
Cook : "There is no explanation for it..."

typical case of ignorance.Going by that logic,we should stop eating NaCl since Na is reactive and Cl2 is poisonous:P
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[*] posted on 14-3-2017 at 02:54


Also, it does have an explanation... it is simple science! (it's not magic, or something). Sometimes, I swear the term should be meth wizard, not meth cook.

And, moving the subject back to thread title...

"Big Pharma" is also very interested in reformulating currently approved compounds (psuedoephedrine), in order to thwart their use in illicit drug manufacture. Innocentive crowdsourced this problem, inviting "Solutions" to the "challenge" from anybody. It has run 4 times now (at least). As I had to register as a solver in order to fully read the "challenge" conditions, I know at at least once it was "solved."


Pseudoephedrine #3: Outsmarting Methamphetamine Producers
STATUS: Awarded
ACTIVE SOLVERS: 205
POSTED: Aug 20 2014
TYPE: RTP
SOURCE: InnoCentive

https://www.innocentive.com/ar/workspace/challengeDetail/571...


If recently developed applications for nanotechnology in the field of medicine are anything to go by, delivery of the active ingredient by nanopartices to the desired cells could reduce the quantity of compound required to achieve the same therapuetic results.
I have been told anecdotally that the products that are applied locally (intra-nasal) are effective, resulting in reduction in dosage.

[Edited on 14-3-2017 by MrBlank]
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macckone
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[*] posted on 14-3-2017 at 21:05


Afrin or it's generics are quite good at relieving congestion
but they suffer rebound effect.
The saline solutions work wonders as well but aren't
something you can do in a suit and tie.
Psuedoephedrine is still around because it works and the
PE crap is crap and everyone knows it.
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[*] posted on 20-3-2017 at 01:53


All the drugs used as adrenergic decongestants, locally applied will cause rebound congestion, due to the likes of nasal drops, be it ephedrine, PSE or xylometazoline/oxymetazoline, they will ALL do it, unless one uses something like clonidine/tizanidine/medetomidine, xylazline etc.

Otherwise one gets receptor desensitization, downregulation, G-protein decoupling etc. Or coupling to beta-arrestins etc. upon typical g-protein bound boud receptors.

[Edited on 20-3-2017 by tsathoggua1]
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