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Author: Subject: Chlorate from bleach - precautions to take
RogueRose
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[*] posted on 13-6-2016 at 21:14
Chlorate from bleach - precautions to take


Just want to make a quick check of possible dangers of water reduction from bleach. I found SS containers are out of the question here so Pyrex flask is used.

Temp will be maintained at roughly 212-216F and am looking for about 2/3-3/4 reduction of liquids for the first step.

Now as to the vapors and gases emitted from the heated NaOCl. What will be emitted besides water vapor? Will Cl2 be emitted? Should I bubble the gases/vapors through a water bath?

Is there anything else that should be noted before performing this?
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greenlight
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[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 01:45


You can also look for the formation of crystals on the surface for the first step as to know when to take it off heat.
Yes, CI2 will be emitted. Just do this process outside or in a fumehood if you have one.

This won't produce much chlorate. If you want more and have lots of uses for it I would consider using an electrolysis cell with potassium chloride. With a 900ml cell, I got 365g of Potassium chlorate in 100 hours.

[Edited on 14-6-2016 by greenlight]




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PHILOU Zrealone
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[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 10:43


Quote: Originally posted by greenlight  
You can also look for the formation of crystals on the surface for the first step as to know when to take it off heat.
Yes, CI2 will be emitted. Just do this process outside or in a fumehood if you have one.

This won't produce much chlorate. If you want more and have lots of uses for it I would consider using an electrolysis cell with potassium chloride. With a 900ml cell, I got 365g of Potassium chlorate in 100 hours.


Normal bleach doesn't evolve Cl2 upon heating/boiling because is contains NaCl, NaOCl and NaOH.
Since Cl2 doesn't escape, the only product can be NaCl, NaOClO2 and NaOH.




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morganbw
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[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 11:20


I would highly recommend going electrolytic.
You can achieve high purity and with proper anode it can be pretty kick ass.

I have a very small amount which I made from bleach, it will ignite mixed with sugar with a drop of H2SO4 but there is a noticeable difference from what I made electrolytic. I did not have enough to do multiple recrystallizations with the bleach method. I did get nice results from the electrolytic method.

I think you inspired me to make some more. I always got rid of my chlorate by giving it to kids of my friends.

I have three possibly four DSA anodes made from a titanium substrate and and iridium oxide coating, 10cm by 15cm(I think that is the dimensions).
They will handle any current I offer at an amatuar level.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 13:50


If you have acces to industrial cleaning 30-50% hypochlorite/bleach solution then it is viable and more efficient (because more concentrated, so more NaClO3 will result and less water to evaporate) but of course electrolytic will be much cheaper because NaCl is dirt cheap.

Also a good hint, but nobody seems to care, is that NaOClO3 is more soluble in aceton, than NaOClO2 which itself is much more soluble than NaCl...so separation and recrystalization is pretty straightforward! Of course, if you can recycle the valuable aceton (distillation / soxhlet extraction) it is best.

Anyway I have good stocks of NaClO3/NaCl weed killer from Brico shops made when it was not prohibited by European legislation and I have still a drugstore provider that sells it (99% NaClO3) per 5 kg or more for a good price (16,35€/5 kg)despite it is not available in the big departement store and garden store anymore.

[Edited on 14-6-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]




PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

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Laboratory of Liptakov
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[*] posted on 15-6-2016 at 01:17
NaClO3


It is very good messages, that still exist ( maybe even around Brussel ) sale - drugstore NaClO3. And price is very low. Almost the Gold Mine for all deminers. From NaClO3 is possible prepare NaClO4 and NH4ClO4, KClO3, HClO4. It are a keys for almost all attempts....:cool:...LL
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greenlight
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[*] posted on 15-6-2016 at 03:45


My bad sorry, I thought Cl2 was evolved.
But yeah, like everyone says, an elctrolytic cell is the go for large amounts of good quality chlorate.




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[*] posted on 15-6-2016 at 09:20


Is platinum/palladium suitable as an electrode for that? I have a lot of wire but platinum catalyses a lot of odd reactions
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greenlight
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[*] posted on 15-6-2016 at 09:44


Platinum is generally used in perchlorate cells I believe.
For chlorate you can use MMO anode and titanium cathode. This is what I use with good results and the electrodes are cheaper than platinum coated ones.

[Edited on 15-6-2016 by greenlight]




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[*] posted on 16-6-2016 at 22:13


Hmmmm. MMO anodes are expensive and hard to find on ebay or on sites like theamatuerchemist.com(store closed till sept). Ive been wondering the same thing, since metal such as platinum are fairly inert. Generally curious to see if anyone experimented with platinum electrodes.
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[*] posted on 11-7-2016 at 05:29


I thought boiling bleach evolved Cl2 as well. I performed this in my garage like an idiot

a long time ago. I didn't stay in there the whole time, but I got an extreme headache

and was told it was from Cl2 production. Glad I'm not the only one to be confused on

the matter. So, what would have caused the headache? Coincidence? I doubt it
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[*] posted on 11-7-2016 at 06:32


http://www.ebay.com/itm/MMO-coated-expanded-titanium-mesh-an...
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stoichiometric_steve
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[*] posted on 11-7-2016 at 09:15


Quote: Originally posted by morganbw  
I always got rid of my chlorate by giving it to kids of my friends.


That seems like a very mean thing to do.
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