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Author: Subject: Neutralizing NOx fumes
NEMO-Chemistry
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[*] posted on 1-7-2016 at 08:56
Neutralizing NOx fumes


Common advice seems to be fume hood or outdoors when using anything that produces NOx fumes.

Could the fumes be washed in say sodium carbonate solution (gas wash bottle) instead? I am working on a fume hood but still think neutralizing the fumes would be better if possible.

I was thinking of a small air pump one end pushing the fumes into a wash bottle, if its doable would sodium carbonate be ok? Or is there something better to use for it?

Its summer holidays now, so the one time of year i get plenty of time to do my long list of chemistry stuff i want to try :D

Thanks
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[*] posted on 1-7-2016 at 11:25


Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
Common advice seems to be fume hood or outdoors when using anything that produces NOx fumes.

Could the fumes be washed in say sodium carbonate solution (gas wash bottle) instead? I am working on a fume hood but still think neutralizing the fumes would be better if possible.

I was thinking of a small air pump one end pushing the fumes into a wash bottle, if its doable would sodium carbonate be ok? Or is there something better to use for it?

Its summer holidays now, so the one time of year i get plenty of time to do my long list of chemistry stuff i want to try :D

Thanks


You could use hydrogen peroxide to maybe regenerate HNO3, or another air pump to sparge it with air.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostwald_process




Lol nerds
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[*] posted on 1-7-2016 at 12:05


Neat idea!
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[*] posted on 1-7-2016 at 12:21


It will be amazing to see the photos you take of the effectiveness.

No doubt you'll post them soon.




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[*] posted on 1-7-2016 at 12:51


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
It will be amazing to see the photos you take of the effectiveness.

No doubt you'll post them soon.


Maybe, i am not a big pic poster sorry. Maybe that will change when

1) I finally get something worth a picture, working!

2) I find a way to keep a expensive camera safe in a limited space

3) I become less clumsy (ok ignore 3 its not gonna happen)

4) I stop doing more than one thing at the same time and have time to actually pic up a camera

5) I remember to take the camera with me

Not all 5 need to happen, i will settle for achieving any one of them.

Most are excuses of course, my main concern is who wants to see yet another copper sulphate solution with crystals forming?

Who is remotely interested in seeing pics of steam covering my mint leaves? Or a sep funnel with two layers in?

I like the chemistry i do, its very basic and not at all clever. Everyone else here does amazing shit and ends up with snow white crystals and everyone applauds (rightly so).

I do the kind of chemistry few seem remotely interested in and more to the point i do it badly, so taking pics of multiple failures and getting a royal piss taking for fucking up a simple reaction puts me off.

Couldnt dry fucking mint right it went moldy!

But tell you what.

I will post pics of my mainly fucked up simple kid chemistry, complete with piss poor math working out. AND everyone else promises not to give me a hard time about how simple it is and how come i fucked it up, deal?

I also ask alot of questions first, i do read up but i lack confidence. I like to know before hand others experiences and what to expect.

A simple example

Dilute some conc sulphuric acid. Dead easy just add water, except i added the water to the acid. I didnt know the rule of A to W, nothing much happened except some boiling and minor spitting but its made me cautious.

That is one example of several very small mishaps that have caused little/no harm, but did scare me a bit at the time.

Remember the copper nitrate to copper carbonate and chloride etc? You said too complicated.

Well it wasnt complicated at all, i added copper to nitric acid and got a nice blue solution, then added sodium carbonate to a portion and got.......FUCK ALL, nothing! Just a white layer laying on the bottom of the flask!

So its not difficult as it dosnt work. I dont know why it dosnt work and all the reading i did says it should work.

Not moaning at you aga, but the lack of pictures has zero to do with lack of chemistry. Far from it, i spend most weekends trying out things from books or on here.

What i lack is the brains to get even the simple right.

[Edited on 1-7-2016 by NEMO-Chemistry]
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[*] posted on 1-7-2016 at 15:31


Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
Quote: Originally posted by aga  
It will be amazing to see the photos you take of the effectiveness.

No doubt you'll post them soon.


Maybe, i am not a big pic poster sorry. Maybe that will change when

1) I finally get something worth a picture, working!

2) I find a way to keep a expensive camera safe in a limited space

3) I become less clumsy (ok ignore 3 its not gonna happen)

4) I stop doing more than one thing at the same time and have time to actually pic up a camera

5) I remember to take the camera with me

Not all 5 need to happen, i will settle for achieving any one of them.

Most are excuses of course, my main concern is who wants to see yet another copper sulphate solution with crystals forming?

Who is remotely interested in seeing pics of steam covering my mint leaves? Or a sep funnel with two layers in?

I like the chemistry i do, its very basic and not at all clever. Everyone else here does amazing shit and ends up with snow white crystals and everyone applauds (rightly so).

I do the kind of chemistry few seem remotely interested in and more to the point i do it badly, so taking pics of multiple failures and getting a royal piss taking for fucking up a simple reaction puts me off.

Couldnt dry fucking mint right it went moldy!

But tell you what.

I will post pics of my mainly fucked up simple kid chemistry, complete with piss poor math working out. AND everyone else promises not to give me a hard time about how simple it is and how come i fucked it up, deal?

I also ask alot of questions first, i do read up but i lack confidence. I like to know before hand others experiences and what to expect.

A simple example

Dilute some conc sulphuric acid. Dead easy just add water, except i added the water to the acid. I didnt know the rule of A to W, nothing much happened except some boiling and minor spitting but its made me cautious.

That is one example of several very small mishaps that have caused little/no harm, but did scare me a bit at the time.

Remember the copper nitrate to copper carbonate and chloride etc? You said too complicated.

Well it wasnt complicated at all, i added copper to nitric acid and got a nice blue solution, then added sodium carbonate to a portion and got.......FUCK ALL, nothing! Just a white layer laying on the bottom of the flask!

So its not difficult as it dosnt work. I dont know why it dosnt work and all the reading i did says it should work.

Not moaning at you aga, but the lack of pictures has zero to do with lack of chemistry. Far from it, i spend most weekends trying out things from books or on here.

What i lack is the brains to get even the simple right.

[Edited on 1-7-2016 by NEMO-Chemistry]


Cut aga some slack; he's attempting to quit smoking and stop drinking alcohol excessively—he may get a bit cranky sometimes.




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[*] posted on 1-7-2016 at 16:56


Quote: Originally posted by Velzee  
Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
Quote: Originally posted by aga  
It will be amazing to see the photos you take of the effectiveness.

No doubt you'll post them soon.


Maybe, i am not a big pic poster sorry. Maybe that will change when

1) I finally get something worth a picture, working!

2) I find a way to keep a expensive camera safe in a limited space

3) I become less clumsy (ok ignore 3 its not gonna happen)

4) I stop doing more than one thing at the same time and have time to actually pic up a camera

5) I remember to take the camera with me

Not all 5 need to happen, i will settle for achieving any one of them.

Most are excuses of course, my main concern is who wants to see yet another copper sulphate solution with crystals forming?

Who is remotely interested in seeing pics of steam covering my mint leaves? Or a sep funnel with two layers in?

I like the chemistry i do, its very basic and not at all clever. Everyone else here does amazing shit and ends up with snow white crystals and everyone applauds (rightly so).

I do the kind of chemistry few seem remotely interested in and more to the point i do it badly, so taking pics of multiple failures and getting a royal piss taking for fucking up a simple reaction puts me off.

Couldnt dry fucking mint right it went moldy!

But tell you what.

I will post pics of my mainly fucked up simple kid chemistry, complete with piss poor math working out. AND everyone else promises not to give me a hard time about how simple it is and how come i fucked it up, deal?

I also ask alot of questions first, i do read up but i lack confidence. I like to know before hand others experiences and what to expect.

A simple example

Dilute some conc sulphuric acid. Dead easy just add water, except i added the water to the acid. I didnt know the rule of A to W, nothing much happened except some boiling and minor spitting but its made me cautious.

That is one example of several very small mishaps that have caused little/no harm, but did scare me a bit at the time.

Remember the copper nitrate to copper carbonate and chloride etc? You said too complicated.

Well it wasnt complicated at all, i added copper to nitric acid and got a nice blue solution, then added sodium carbonate to a portion and got.......FUCK ALL, nothing! Just a white layer laying on the bottom of the flask!

So its not difficult as it dosnt work. I dont know why it dosnt work and all the reading i did says it should work.

Not moaning at you aga, but the lack of pictures has zero to do with lack of chemistry. Far from it, i spend most weekends trying out things from books or on here.

What i lack is the brains to get even the simple right.

[Edited on 1-7-2016 by NEMO-Chemistry]


Cut aga some slack; he's attempting to quit smoking and stop drinking alcohol excessively—he may get a bit cranky sometimes.


I wasnt aware i had given him a hard time??

Giving up drinking and smoking isnt an excuse to get cranky with other people anyway. Maybe addicts should stay away from keyboards when in withdrawal?

Dont mind me i have under 10,000 posts so i am a troll/sock puppet anyway.
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[*] posted on 1-7-2016 at 17:03


I think the best thing a non-chemist starting to study chemistry can do, is buy (even a used copy) a beginning inorganic chem. lab manual for HS or up. This is a good way to learn important techniques and safety guidelines. Robert Thompson's "Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments" is also a good starter book. It also covers setting up a home lab and basic techniques in good detail. His theoretical explanations are very good and not loaded with math.

For a beginning-from-scratch home chemist I don't recommend any but the most basic organic chemistry, preferably after the above ideas have been implemented.

One more thing: the secret to a successful experiment lies in good preparation before you go into the lab. (Unfortunately, my problem is that I succumb to indecision and the "paralysis of analysis"!

Good luck in your chemistry endeavors.
Regards, Charlie
(P.S.: I don't need to see any more pix of CuSO4 recrystallizations either!!!:D:D:D
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[*] posted on 1-7-2016 at 17:27


Quote: Originally posted by CharlieA  
I think the best thing a non-chemist starting to study chemistry can do, is buy (even a used copy) a beginning inorganic chem. lab manual for HS or up. This is a good way to learn important techniques and safety guidelines. Robert Thompson's "Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments" is also a good starter book. It also covers setting up a home lab and basic techniques in good detail. His theoretical explanations are very good and not loaded with math.

For a beginning-from-scratch home chemist I don't recommend any but the most basic organic chemistry, preferably after the above ideas have been implemented.

One more thing: the secret to a successful experiment lies in good preparation before you go into the lab. (Unfortunately, my problem is that I succumb to indecision and the "paralysis of analysis"!

Good luck in your chemistry endeavors.
Regards, Charlie
(P.S.: I don't need to see any more pix of CuSO4 recrystallizations either!!!:D:D:D


I got a couple of books, is the guy you mentioned the one with a you tube channel on analytical chemistry? The one with testing for plant alkaloids etc?

If so then blame him!! His channel got me interested in chemistry.:D

Books are ok, but sometimes you need to ask someone. I guess normally the basics are done at school and you have a teacher to ask.

Starting from scratch is really hard just from a book, if something goes wrong it rarely tells you why. Safety is my other concern, really easy to mess up.

Once i have a fume hood sorted i will try more things out without asking first, i got a gas mask last week but really hate having it on my face. Strange way to find out your claustrophobic lol.

I am not good at doing one thing then stopping and taking a pic, i seem to spend most my time running about trying to stop something boiling over or foaming!

I see people take pics of distillations, no idea how! when i did my ethanol from yeast i got 4 fractions, by the time i had written the temps down and swapped out flasks etc it was all over!!

I will hunt out Roberts book, Amazon is pretty good for second hand books.
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[*] posted on 2-7-2016 at 14:36


Aw. Fumes of that type can often be neutralized via using a mild vacuum to pull (bubble) exhaust gases though a solution of strong base. For, other types of gases, bubbling through acids, peroxide, or whatever...may be effective.

Best if this is also done in a fume hood. You want to use a gas mask too? Fine.
Better safe than sorry. Huh? Did I say sorry? Actually, I should have used the words: Crippled or Dead.
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[*] posted on 3-7-2016 at 00:56


Quote: Originally posted by zed  
Aw. Fumes of that type can often be neutralized via using a mild vacuum to pull (bubble) exhaust gases though a solution of strong base. For, other types of gases, bubbling through acids, peroxide, or whatever...may be effective.

Best if this is also done in a fume hood. You want to use a gas mask too? Fine.
Better safe than sorry. Huh? Did I say sorry? Actually, I should have used the words: Crippled or Dead.


No fume hood at the moment, no i tried a gas mask and it freaks me out a bit! It also misted up really quickly.

Venting a fume hood outside is one thing but i prefer to try and neutralize the fumes, i dont have much control on other people being down wind of fumes from a fume hood.

NOx making weak Nitric acid would be handy, Nitric is getting hard to get.
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[*] posted on 3-7-2016 at 01:33


I am at the moment thinking through options for my new lab space in my new house -- only a week before I move in (yay!) It will be a few months before it gets built. I plan on having a fume hood but I think the idea of pretreating waste gases is a good one.

Most gases in my lab are NOx, SO2 or H2S. These can all be scrubbed reasonably well with a solution of NaOH. So the plan is to have a scrubber setup in my fume hood when I install it. Te fume-hood won't have an ideal location to vent to and so I think this will be pretty important.

HCl is a separate issue. It is more of a storage problem than anything else. I am keen to not rust all of my tools in the new house.




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[*] posted on 4-7-2016 at 06:32


Best way to scrub NOx is a two stage approach:

1.)OXIDIZING: pass the nitrogen oxides through 30% hydrogen peroxide solution (the gas stream should be free of halides). We use a countercurrent packed bed wet scrubber for that with this media:

http://www.lantecp.com/products/lanpac/

NO is oxidized to NO2 which makes nitric acid (usually a 18-22% w/v solution can be made in the first contactor).
2.)REDUCING: What escapes through that is scrubbed through a 0.5 M solution of sodium metabisulfite in 0.2 M NaOH solution. Small amounts of thiosulfate can be beneficial.


For small purposes, maybe a wiffle ball and some 6" PVC pipe and build an eductor.

There are some wet scrubbers designs on the goldrefiningforum.com




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[*] posted on 4-7-2016 at 06:57


Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
I am at the moment thinking through options for my new lab space in my new house -- only a week before I move in (yay!) It will be a few months before it gets built. I plan on having a fume hood but I think the idea of pretreating waste gases is a good one.

Most gases in my lab are NOx, SO2 or H2S. These can all be scrubbed reasonably well with a solution of NaOH. So the plan is to have a scrubber setup in my fume hood when I install it. Te fume-hood won't have an ideal location to vent to and so I think this will be pretty important.

HCl is a separate issue. It is more of a storage problem than anything else. I am keen to not rust all of my tools in the new house.


I have HCL from a company called APC, i purchased the 5 ltr container. I did this not because i need huge amounts but the container and seal are excellent.

After 4 months of storage in less than ideal conditions i can see no rust or evidence of escape.

I plan to take some pics of a small scale experiment i am doing, i will also take a pic of the container and seal they use.
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