fuse123
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Nitric acid by Electric arc !
somewhere...... i hear that we can make
NO2 gas by using electric arc in the air
& desolve collectting gas in water.
Is this right?and how?
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Swany
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Not NO2, specifically. Yes, it can be done. I belive it is called a Birkland-Eide (spelling) reactor and there is a thread in the technochemistry
section and it was sucessfully applied by member Axehandle.
Search.
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Elawr
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Yes, indeed it can. A hot electric arc through air is required. The cold type of corona discharge produced for ozone or ion generation will not work.
What you need is an HV supply such as a neon sign transformer (NST) capable of outputing around 12kv at 30 ma. NSTs are relatively inexpensive yet
robust enough to dissipate a few hundred watts across an arc for the considerable length of time required ot generate usable amounts of NOx.
I think there are earlier threads here on this including details on how to actually set up and use such an apparatus.
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fuse123
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 wow maximum speed
Thanks SWANY
I need to know tha method to do it step by step
tell my wher
Any links
thanks again 
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fuse123
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thak you ELAWR
but where are the links 
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Swany
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https://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1518
You can find the rest yourself.
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fuse123
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I do it
it takes 2 hours to read it
But at the end ..... no one fom them can
made practical reactor
Oh i'm frustration
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not_important
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fuse123
I do it
it takes 2 hours to read it
But at the end ..... no one fom them can
made practical reactor
Oh i'm frustration |
Welcome to the wonderful world of research, where you travel to when you want to do something out of the ordinary.
The arc method really only works well on a fairly large scale. On a small scale, if you can tolerate the inefficiency, just about any arc set-up will
work so long as you can collect the gases that have gone through the arc.
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fuse123
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| Quote: | Originally posted by not_important
Welcome to the wonderful world of research, where you travel to when you want to do something out of the ordinary.
The arc method really only works well on a fairly large scale. On a small scale, if you can tolerate the inefficiency, just about any arc set-up will
work so long as you can collect the gases that have gone through the arc. |
maybe
But what about MORVAN saying " NO is produced thermally"
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not_important
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fuse123
maybe
But what about MORVAN saying " NO is produced thermally" |
It is. I said 'just about any electric arc', meaning nice hot sizzling spark. Most of the work in the commericial processes is to get the arc fanned
out into a thin flame, and to blow air through that at the proper rate, all to minimise the amount of energy used per mole of nitrate produced. It is
a thermal process, the arc gives quick heating and as it is thin also makes it easy to quickly chill the products to preserve as much of the oxide as
possible.
For something you can fit on a benchtop, the total conversion rate isn't going to be huge, but neither is the power consumption. Concentrating on a
arc that doesn't erode the electrodes too fast, and can be arranged so that air can be pulled through it and into an absorbing setup, is plenty. Turn
it on and let it run for a few weeks sort of thing.
Again, that is 'arc', not electric discharge as in corona discharges and the like.
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fuse123
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| Quote: | Originally posted by not_important
Again, that is 'arc', not electric discharge as in corona discharges and the like. |
My god
another frustration 
what the different between 'arc' & ' discharge '
What i know is that any (arc or discharge ),that's mean high temp <+3600C>
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12AX7
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Not really, you can easily ionize gas without it being exceptionally hot. Corona discharges are not very hot. Arc discharges (as used in welding,
for instance) are thermal plasmas and emit a lot of black-body continuum as well as spectral lines.
The reason being the high stability of the N2 molecule and the high density of oxygen in air, which ionizes much easier. You can push your choice of
electric "sandblasting" agent through the air, in other words electrons, and they'll batter anything in their path, but in so doing, as soon as they
get any energy (say, 5eV), that energy will be released in dissociating O2, preventing the electrons from gaining enough energy to split N2. A
thermal arc is used because, although it can't dissociate N2 to any appreciable extent (like...say...10%!), a little is better than nothing at all.
This is a consequence of quantum mechanics and thermal statistics.
Tim
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franklyn
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http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=6717#p...
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