cyberzed
Harmless
Posts: 31
Registered: 23-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Solubility of components
Hi all, i'm looking for a good reference for solubility parameters of compounds.
What i do currently is looking up the msds of the compound i want to know the solubility parameters from but they only list the solubility in water.
Is there a place where you can look up the solubility parameters of compounds in different solvents?
|
|
|
SecretSquirrel
Hazard to Self
Posts: 71
Registered: 16-4-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Are you looking for the solubility of any particular compound in a particular solvent. If so, could you please tell us and maybe someone can answer
your question. Or you can try serching The Merck Index.
|
|
|
Maya
Hazard to Others
Posts: 263
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: Mercury
Member Is Offline
Mood: molten
|
|
yep, for organic compounds in organic solvents usually don't get much specific data from HofCandP.
a little more specific data is in merck as suggested. Ultimately, the data is usually reported once, by the original authors that first made that
particular compound so for uncommom cmpnds may have to do a lit search in maybe Beilstein's and look up the original papers
another place besides Beilstein's is Dictionary of Chemical Compounds , if U have access
|
|
|
cyberzed
Harmless
Posts: 31
Registered: 23-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I am a bit new to the merck though, but it seems to me that for this you would require a subscription to do this online?
I have seen that they have this in books and on cd database but i don't have those.
Maya, what exactly is HofCandP?
I also found the chemfinder from cambridgestone where i was able to register freely and was able to search some general info about compounds, but also
only water as solubility parameters.
Does someone has a link where i would be able to take a good starting point?
|
|
|
SecretSquirrel
Hazard to Self
Posts: 71
Registered: 16-4-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Yes, to search online Merck database you have to pay subscription fee, but almost any scientific library has Merck index in paper form on their
shelves, so you might want to check there first.
|
|
|
Maya
Hazard to Others
Posts: 263
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: Mercury
Member Is Offline
Mood: molten
|
|
handbook of chemistry and physics ,ed-1-85
not everything is avalable online, unlike they would like you to believe.\\
somethimes you actually have to walk to the Library and do a chem lit search and , gaaaack! , open a book!
Between these references are every single Organic compound ever created probably
Merck
Beilstein's
Handbook of Chemistry and Physics
Properties of Organic Compounds
Combined Chemical Dictionary
|
|
|
Nicodem
Super Moderator
Posts: 4230
Registered: 28-12-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Maya
Between these references are every single Organic compound ever created probably
Merck
Beilstein's
Handbook of Chemistry and Physics
Properties of Organic Compounds
Combined Chemical Dictionary |
I disagree. Not even Beilstein, SciFinder or Gmelin index everything, not even everything in the academic research. For example, they don't index
theses where many reactions and compounds are reported in details, yet often only a part of any thesis gets published in journals. Not to mention that
they can only index public information since most of the industry research never gets published. The other problem with these search engines is that
they simply fail so often. For example, you might check SciFinder (aka Chemical Abstracts) for the synthesis of a certain compound by searching for
the structure. You will get a couple of hits. But then you check several publishers' search engines by using the compound name and you might find
several other references missed by SciFinder. This happens to me all the time and it is becoming a problem since the academic researchers got so
incredibly spoiled by SciFinder and Beilstein that they got to rely solely on these.
…there is a human touch of the cultist “believer” in every theorist that he must struggle against as being
unworthy of the scientist. Some of the greatest men of science have publicly repudiated a theory which earlier they hotly defended. In this lies their
scientific temper, not in the scientific defense of the theory. - Weston La Barre (Ghost Dance, 1972)
Read the The ScienceMadness Guidelines!
|
|
|
cyberzed
Harmless
Posts: 31
Registered: 23-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Ok, i gues i need to pay a visit to the chemical library then and "gaaack" open a book.
This is going to take time since my beard has grown completely stuck into my keyboard 
Hmmm, maybe i can just order the merck online and let it deliver right on my doorstep
Anyway, thanks for the info.
|
|
|
Maya
Hazard to Others
Posts: 263
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: Mercury
Member Is Offline
Mood: molten
|
|
<< I disagree. Not even Beilstein, SciFinder or Gmelin index everything, not even everything in the academic research. For example, they don't
index theses where many reactions and compounds are reported in details, yet often only a part of any thesis gets published in journals. Not to
mention that they can only index public information since most of the industry research never gets published. The other problem with these search
engines is that they simply fail so often. For example, you might check SciFinder (aka Chemical Abstracts) for the synthesis of a certain compound by
searching for the structure. You will get a couple of hits. But then you check several publishers' search engines by using the compound name and you
might find several other references missed by SciFinder. This happens to me all the time and it is becoming a problem since the academic researchers
got so incredibly spoiled by SciFinder and Beilstein that they got to rely solely on these. >>
You see? that's the problem..... Everyone relies on computers and search engines nowadays to do all their
footwork and all too often the computer is to stupid to know exactly what you are really searching for so you don't find it.
True some compounds never got published , but then you can't expect to find any mention of said compound for that very reason. And yet it did exist at
some point in time in some lab. If a bear sh^ts in the wood and nobody sees him, did he really take a d*mp?
When I did chem lit searches , it was B4 the age of computer search engines and I would always eventually find my compound in C.A. or elsewhere by
putting my nose to the book, err , grindstone.
In this day and age , it seems like I can find just about any compound I'm looking for electronically in the "Combined Chemical Dictionary". That is,
If you are lucky enough to have it uploaded to your computer.
I don't know if Merck will have a huge many compounds.....
[Edited on 20-11-2006 by Maya]
|
|
|
Baphomet
Hazard to Others
Posts: 211
Registered: 19-11-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Maya I think you're right, I've found solubility info for some pretty obscure solute / solvent combos by doing specific searches, both on the net and
in literature.
One idea I had was for a kind of solubility database of sorts, which would be hosted on the net. Users could enter solute / solvent combinations and
get solubility at various temperatures.
If anyone would find it useful and is interested in collaborating in such a project send me a U2U.
|
|
|
chromium
Hazard to Others
Posts: 284
Registered: 27-6-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: reactive
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Baphomet
One idea I had was for a kind of solubility database of sorts, which would be hosted on the net. Users could enter solute / solvent combinations and
get solubility at various temperatures.
If anyone would find it useful and is interested in collaborating in such a project send me a U2U. |
It is rather easy to find solubility in water @ 20C for almost any compound and for temperature like 80C, but what if you need to know exact values
for solubility of MgBr2 in acetone at various temperatures or want to know with how many CH3OH molecules calcium iodate complexes when crystallised
out from methanol at -30C?
More complex solutions - such as for example NaCl+Na2SO4+Na2CO3 in 5% ethanol are also possible. And there are solutions that spearate to two liquid
phases in certain temperatures (and concentrations) and whole lot of other sepcial cases.
There are some books specially dedicated to solubilities. These contain hundreds (and sometimes thousands) of pages experimental data. In my opinion
it would be very hard work to make searchable database from all these endless tables and even then there would not be everything that one could
occassionaly need.
Small database - like common salts of common metals in common solvents (or most common organic compounds in common solvents) could be quite realistic
task and still very useful.
[Edited on 21-11-2006 by chromium]
When all think alike, then no one is thinking. - Walter Lippmann
|
|
|
Ozone
International Hazard
Posts: 1269
Registered: 28-7-2005
Location: Good Olde USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Integrated
|
|
Hello,
Ah, HofCandP = CRC.
Oh, and it is "Cambridgesoft".
When in doubt, dry some (insert name here), weigh it carefully, and try to dissolve it. If the solubility parameters are not found in Merck, CRC, or,
let me add "Lange's Handbook of Chemistry" or Bielstein, I am sure that your data would be *most* welcome here.
Try not to kill yourself,
O3
[Edited on 22-11-2006 by Ozone]
[Edited on 22-11-2006 by Ozone]
-Anyone who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
--Albert Einstein
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5102
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
"It is rather easy to find solubility in water @ 20C for almost any compound and for temperature like 80C, but what if you need to know exact values
for solubility of MgBr2 in acetone at various temperatures or want to know with how many CH3OH molecules calcium iodate complexes when crystallised
out from methanol at -30C? "
In general it is only easy to find the solubillity of, for example, salt in water, because somebody did the experiment.
If you really need to know about MgBr2 in acetone you have to (and this is even more frightening than going to the library and getting a real live
book) measure it.
Welcome to the world of experimental science.
|
|
|
Baphomet
Hazard to Others
Posts: 211
Registered: 19-11-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by chromium
...
In my opinion it would be very hard work to make searchable database from all these endless tables and even then there would not be everything that
one could occassionaly need.
...
|
Point taken, them's the brakes! Even if it's just one solute and one solvent for each measurement, plus temp, that's 3 dimensions and makes for one
hell of a cube.
Probably best to stick to looking them up on an as-needed basis.
|
|
|
Baphomet
Hazard to Others
Posts: 211
Registered: 19-11-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Online Solubility DB
I just found this online database run by the US government. It looks really cool
http://srdata.nist.gov/solubility/
|
|
|
Brie
Harmless
Posts: 13
Registered: 3-6-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
*cue victory music*
that's awesome, the rest of the NIST databases also seem very worthwhile to explore, and is seems most/all of them are free.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
