Daffodile
Hazard to Others
Posts: 167
Registered: 7-3-2016
Location: Highways of Valhalla
Member Is Offline
Mood: Riding eternal
|
|
Cleaning Homemade Ethanol
I make all my own Ethanol through fermentation and repeated distillation, but often it still comtains traces of yeast. Can this just be removed with
activated carbon? Or will I need anything else?
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4278
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
Traces of yeast after distillation? I find that hard to believe.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
mikeehlert
Harmless
Posts: 13
Registered: 20-10-2016
Location: West Coast USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Learning something new
|
|
If it really has yeast in the condensate, your distillation is bad. Too hot/boiling too hard, cooling coil inlet too close to liquid surface,
overfilled pot are a few thoughts.
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble.
|
|
|
aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Distilling ethanol from a yeasty mix just needs, er, distilling.
The heat kills off the yeast, so mostly ethanol & water make it out of the pot.
For anyone actually trying this, just follow the instructions at homedistiller.com
Plenty of very useful references there.
|
|
|
wg48
National Hazard
Posts: 821
Registered: 21-11-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If you distil a solution contain significant amounts yeast it gives the product a different flavour than that produced by distilling a clear solution
even if no whole yeast reaches the product.
In effect your steam distilling essential oil from the yeast LOL That may be a flavour you like but probably not.
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4278
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
Doesn't matter if the heat kills it or not- living cells generally don't evaporate.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Some bits do come over, hence the need to re-distill after a 'stripping' run.
A low-alcohol yeasty mix tends to be a highly complex mixture of ethanol and loads of other OC.
|
|
|
Daffodile
Hazard to Others
Posts: 167
Registered: 7-3-2016
Location: Highways of Valhalla
Member Is Offline
Mood: Riding eternal
|
|
I thought it was just denatured proteins being carried over suspended in droplets of vapour. The first distillation is done 25m separation of
condenser from liquid, second is 15cm. I do it this two step copper ->glass way to save time.
|
|
|
Dr.Bob
International Hazard
Posts: 2658
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: USA - NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
You could just filter and re-distill it. That should get rid of any solids.
I prefer to use a biofilter approach with my kidneys to remediate the ethanol.
|
|
|
Daffodile
Hazard to Others
Posts: 167
Registered: 7-3-2016
Location: Highways of Valhalla
Member Is Offline
Mood: Riding eternal
|
|
Usually I wouldn't care, but I've been making awesome vodka recently, and yeast gives it a strange taste before multiple distillations. I wanted to
find a denaturing chemical or otherwise that can give me complete precipitation of yeast I can remove before the first distillation.
|
|
|
Lithium
Hazard to Others
Posts: 103
Registered: 25-2-2012
Location: Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Thinking!
|
|
Slightly different, but in the past I have distilled the yeast wash with glassware and achieved a foul smelling distillate. Rather than discard or
redistill multiple times, adding a SMALL quantity of KMnO4 with stirring to the cooled distillate and allowing to react fully (and until no "rotten
egg" or sickly smell remains) before redistillation has removed almost all of the nasty smells.
I suspect this to be due to the permanganate oxidising aldehydes and sulfurous compounds to higher boiling and less "aromatic" compounds (including
some ethanol), but have no evidence of course.
This approach is great for a very neutral spirit (or laboratory reagent) but would likely destroy any nuanced aromas you may be trying to create.
With other batches which require the flavours and aromas to be conserved, I have used freeze distillation. This method consists of freezing the entire
wash in a container with a neck (much like a large wine bottle), inverting the bottle over a secondary container, and allowing the bottle to defrost
and drip into the secondary container. In this process, a third of the original liquid is collected until the mostly-solid wash is discarded, most of
the yeast particulate being trapped in the ice-water mixture. The largest portion of the alcohol and volatile organics are concentrated in the
secondary container, and upon allowing the yeast to settle and pouring off the clear supernatant liquor, distillation yields a spirit with little to
no yeasty-ness while maintaining much of the desired aroma and flavour.
Li
|
|
|
aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
At a local bodega yesterday i learned that they sample their fermentations regularly, then stop the yeast action at the point they consider the
flavour/ethanol content to be 'best'.
Previously i thought that sodium metabisulphite was added to achieve this, but no.
The yeast is normally killed by adding ethanol to bring it to around 15%.
For a cleaner flavour and 'true' ethanol content they chill the mash down to -2 C for a few days instead !
In either case there is no extra flavour added (e.g. sulphites) and the dead yeast precipitates out as 'lees'.
Their dry Moscatel "Seco Sobre Lias Finas" is awesome.
http://www.bodegasbentomiz.com
|
|
|
Chemetix
Hazard to Others
Posts: 375
Registered: 23-9-2016
Location: Oztrayleeyah
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wavering between lucidity and madness
|
|
Distillation rarely cleans a bad ferment. Sulphur smells are the result of low nutrition for the yeast. Worse is when a high sugar content wort (i.e.
going for a high ethanol fermentation) stressed the yeast and the high ethanol being produced just acts as a solvent for the dead yeast sucking out
nasty flavours. Best vodka flavour comes from low sugar and content good nutrition. Getting the yeast to settle I recommend aluminium sulphate and
then egg white. Rack off the yeast and add carbon and wax pellets. Should give a very clean wort.
|
|
|
Daffodile
Hazard to Others
Posts: 167
Registered: 7-3-2016
Location: Highways of Valhalla
Member Is Offline
Mood: Riding eternal
|
|
Hmm I'll try filtering once, adding Aluminum Sulfate, filtering, adding Sodium Carbonate, and filtering one last time before distillation. Thanks
guys.
|
|
|
arkoma
Redneck Overlord
Posts: 1761
Registered: 3-2-2014
Location: On a Big Blue Marble hurtling through space
Member Is Offline
Mood: украї́нська
|
|
When distilling EtOH from whatever foul fermentation products I've used, I pack my claisen with a bunch of curli-cues of 10 gauge copper wire. Grabs
the sulfur nasties. I haven't achieved azeo yet--gotten close. These massive injuries I received put it all on hold. However, I have reached 90%
EtOH that no has discernible smell at all from various dodgy fermentables.
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
|
|
|
macckone
International Hazard
Posts: 2159
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
The first distillation should be acidic.
This reduces ammonia compounds in the distillate.
Copper in the column will reduce sulfur compounds.
Getting it to azeotropic will leave ethyl acetate in larger quantities.
Sodium hydroxide solution added will destroy the acetate.
Then redistillation to the azeotrope will be very pure.
Dilution with distilled water and running it through activated carbon
will polish it. Then a final distillation.
Achieving azeotropic is a function of column height and reflux.
Otherwise it requires multiple distillations.
|
|
|
hyfalcon
International Hazard
Posts: 1003
Registered: 29-3-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
4.5' column on a 14 gallon pot seems to work well. 180+ proof first pass then if it's not azo on the second I can't tell the difference on the
hygrometer.
|
|
|
Maroboduus
Hazard to Others
Posts: 257
Registered: 14-9-2016
Location: 26 Ancho Street
Member Is Offline
Mood: vacant
|
|
What's a hygrometer?
EDIT: arkoma below:
Thanks, glad to see you back.
[Edited on 19-11-2016 by Maroboduus]
[Edited on 19-11-2016 by Maroboduus]
|
|
|
arkoma
Redneck Overlord
Posts: 1761
Registered: 3-2-2014
Location: On a Big Blue Marble hurtling through space
Member Is Offline
Mood: украї́нська
|
|
Had to have been a typo:
HYDROmeter--measures the densities of liquids wikipedia
HYGROmeter--measures relative humidity
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
|
|
|
jamit
Hazard to Others
Posts: 375
Registered: 18-6-2010
Location: Midwest USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Lithium  | Slightly different, but in the past I have distilled the yeast wash with glassware and achieved a foul smelling distillate. Rather than discard or
redistill multiple times, adding a SMALL quantity of KMnO4 with stirring to the cooled distillate and allowing to react fully (and until no "rotten
egg" or sickly smell remains) before redistillation has removed almost all of the nasty smells.
I suspect this to be due to the permanganate oxidising aldehydes and sulfurous compounds to higher boiling and less "aromatic" compounds (including
some ethanol), but have no evidence of course.
This approach is great for a very neutral spirit (or laboratory reagent) but would likely destroy any nuanced aromas you may be trying to create.
With other batches which require the flavours and aromas to be conserved, I have used freeze distillation. This method consists of freezing the entire
wash in a container with a neck (much like a large wine bottle), inverting the bottle over a secondary container, and allowing the bottle to defrost
and drip into the secondary container. In this process, a third of the original liquid is collected until the mostly-solid wash is discarded, most of
the yeast particulate being trapped in the ice-water mixture. The largest portion of the alcohol and volatile organics are concentrated in the
secondary container, and upon allowing the yeast to settle and pouring off the clear supernatant liquor, distillation yields a spirit with little to
no yeasty-ness while maintaining much of the desired aroma and flavour. |
I've made sugar alcohol and there's always some yeast-like odor which i can't get rid of even after several distillation. Is this the smell of
aldehyde or sulfur-like odor. will a redistillation using copper column get rid of the smell...or do I need to use kmn04 or something. thanks.
|
|
|
Tsjerk
International Hazard
Posts: 3022
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mood
|
|
Try some activated carbon before distillation, these "yeasty" flavors are volatile organics. Trough it in, let stand over night and decant/filter
before distillation.
Often when you see "yeast extract" on the ingredients list of instant noodles or other dried instant stuff, they are the flavors. For example Unilever
uses a specific yeast strain which tastes like chicken when grown in a specific growth medium and after been given a heat shock. Marmite is another
famous example of strong odour/taste.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
