amateur23
Harmless
Posts: 3
Registered: 28-11-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Solvent drying - molecular sieves
Hello
I have read quite a lot about the use of molecular sieves for drying solvents. I noticed that most commonly people say the solvent should be left over
molecular sieves for 12/24 hours. However, I would need to leave it for a week. Does anybody know if that would (somehow) affect my solvent? I would
imagine it shouldn't be a problem since many solvents are normally sold over molecular sieves. However, I might be wrong - perhaps the procedure is
different when you need to do it yourself. Any suggestions?
Thanks
|
|
|
Meltonium
Hazard to Self
Posts: 97
Registered: 23-9-2016
Location: Home in pajamas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fluorinated
|
|
Totally fine to leave it for a week, indefinitely even. Clean molecular sieves won't (or at least should not) affect you solvent in any way other than
taking the water out of it.
|
|
|
Metacelsus
International Hazard
Posts: 2531
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Boston, MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble
|
|
Remember, don't dry enolizable ketones (like acetone) with molecular sieves. You'll get aldol condensation reactions.
Other than that, molecular sieves are fine to leave in for extended periods of time.
|
|
|
Chlorine
Hazard to Self
Posts: 56
Registered: 26-11-2016
Location: Maine, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Brominated
|
|
If you're using molecular sieves, make sure your solvent is relatively dry, upwards of 95%.
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Metacelsus  | Remember, don't dry enolizable ketones (like acetone) with molecular sieves. You'll get aldol condensation reactions.
Other than that, molecular sieves are fine to leave in for extended periods of time. |
I have seen published instructions for drying acetone with molecular sieves, to be used in processing fireworks compositions containing Magnalium and
bound with Parlon (chlorinated isoprene). Specifically, "go getter" self propelled colored stars-
Could you elaborate on these condensation reactions, and the time frame required
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
Scalebar
Hazard to Self
Posts: 54
Registered: 6-5-2016
Location: Europe!
Member Is Offline
Mood: Looking for a way out
|
|
If it's an issue for you, mol sieves can be dusty as hell - I have to filter my anhydrous ethanol for optical use. We store ours over an excess (
about 25% volume ) of sieve until the bottle runs out, which can be months.
|
|
|
amateur23
Harmless
Posts: 3
Registered: 28-11-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hi
Many thanks for all the replies. I need to dry acetonitrile for a chiral derivatising reagent that is moisture sensitive. Last time I used the sieves,
I had to filter the solvent as well as it was very cloudy.
Thank you for all your help.
|
|
|
Cryolite.
Hazard to Others
Posts: 269
Registered: 28-6-2016
Location: CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
@Bert: As far as I know, those reactions are pretty fast: keto-enol tautomerism is relatively fast at the surface of the relatively basic molecular
sieves, and condensation is again quick. To make matters worse, the water produced in the condensation gets absorbed into the sieves, preventing the
reverse reaction from happening. For more information, see http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jo00414a038
|
|
|
Chlorine
Hazard to Self
Posts: 56
Registered: 26-11-2016
Location: Maine, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Brominated
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Cryolite. | | @Bert: As far as I know, those reactions are pretty fast: keto-enol tautomerism is relatively fast at the surface of the relatively basic molecular
sieves, and condensation is again quick. To make matters worse, the water produced in the condensation gets absorbed into the sieves, preventing the
reverse reaction from happening. For more information, see http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jo00414a038 |
It may of been cloudy from clay dust suspended in solution.
|
|
|
DDTea
National Hazard
Posts: 940
Registered: 25-2-2003
Location: Freedomland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Degenerate
|
|
I've tested this myself with ~10 mL acetone in a 20 mL screw cap vial, with the bottom covered with mol. sieves. Within 4 hours, you will see a layer
of yellowy condensation product surrounding the mol. sieves.
"In the end the proud scientist or philosopher who cannot be bothered to make his thought accessible has no choice but to retire to the heights in
which dwell the Great Misunderstood and the Great Ignored, there to rail in Olympic superiority at the folly of mankind." - Reginald Kapp.
|
|
|
aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
... or that could be the dust from the molecular sieves, which anyone ever having used any would recognise immediately.
Personally i know roughly Jack Shit about Chemistry, yet have actually tried to use these things, sometimes with success, sometimes with failure.
One of the most noteable things is how fragile those balls of clay are, and how much clay dust is Always present when you use them.
[Edited on 28-11-2016 by aga]
|
|
|
DDTea
National Hazard
Posts: 940
Registered: 25-2-2003
Location: Freedomland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Degenerate
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by aga |
... or that could be the dust from the molecular sieves, which anyone ever having used any would recognise immediately.
|
Maybe. But gas chromatography said otherwise: higher boiling products formed that were not present in the original acetone. Taken together with the
color change and that these particular mol. sieves did not discolor other solvents, and I'm comfortable saying that the acetone reacted in a manner
that it is known to. I'm relying on memory: this was a quick and dirty test, maybe 2 years ago, with data I no longer have access to.
"In the end the proud scientist or philosopher who cannot be bothered to make his thought accessible has no choice but to retire to the heights in
which dwell the Great Misunderstood and the Great Ignored, there to rail in Olympic superiority at the folly of mankind." - Reginald Kapp.
|
|
|
S.C. Wack
bibliomaster
Posts: 2419
Registered: 7-5-2004
Location: Cornworld, Central USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enhanced
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by amateur23 | | I have read quite a lot about the use of molecular sieves for drying solvents. I noticed that most commonly people say the solvent should be left over
molecular sieves for 12/24 hours. However, I would need to leave it for a week. Does anybody know if that would (somehow) affect my solvent?
|
Well at least it's not another one of those narrow super specific threads.
Armarego and Perrin say 4A sieves; see Burfield and Smithers...who say don't use sieves (for acetone. 3A sieves for acetonitrile)...acetone reacts
nearly instantly with strong enough bases.
|
|
|
Dr.Bob
International Hazard
Posts: 2658
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: USA - NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I think acetone could be dried for minutes to an hour OK, I would not go much longer, then you could filter it is you wish to keep it clean of
particulates. For most other solvents, you can dry them for days to months, we buy THF over sieves. It helps some, but not that much. But you do
need to dry them well first under vacuum while heating in order to have them work well.
|
|
|
moonbeamstudio
Harmless
Posts: 4
Registered: 18-12-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enthusiatic
|
|
Can someone tell me please - can silica gel (blue granules) can be used for drying solvents??
Thanks in advance!
|
|
|
Melgar
Anti-Spam Agent
Posts: 2004
Registered: 23-2-2010
Location: Connecticut
Member Is Offline
Mood: Estrified
|
|
The blue is anhydrous cobalt chloride that's used as an indicator. It turns orange when it hydrates, indicating that it may need to be regenerated.
Silica gel is slightly acidic, so as long as your solvent is able to handle those conditions, as well as the cobalt chloride, it should work decently
well for drying.
|
|
|
Heavy Walter
Hazard to Others
Posts: 127
Registered: 17-12-2015
Location: Argentina
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I would not recommend the one with cobalt indicator.
It dissolves easily.
I have seen many contaminations.
|
|
|
alking
Hazard to Others
Posts: 252
Registered: 11-3-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I always rinse my sieves off to remove any dust and then dry them before use. They come largely inactive so you have to dry them anyway, might as well
clean off that dust in the process.
|
|
|
Dr.Bob
International Hazard
Posts: 2658
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: USA - NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Silica gel can dry solvents, but blue stuff might leach. As well, it will not work well for polar solvents like MeOH which tend to dissolve/react
with silica gel to create soluble silicates. Drying agents are best with already mostly dry solvents, there are tables of which ones work best with
each solvent, just google "solvent drying agents" and you will find several, keep in mind than many require distillation after drying, such as calcium
hydride, which cannot simply be filtered off of many solvents.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
