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Author: Subject: Copper(II) acetate triarsenite synthesis questions/help
Fidelmios
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biggrin.gif posted on 15-4-2017 at 21:03
Copper(II) acetate triarsenite synthesis questions/help


Hi all,

I wanna tackle something really fun next, some Paris Green (copper(II) acetate triarsenite) synthesis. So I would really appreciate if anyone has experience with this stuff, come on down! I would love some help with this, its sorta the weirdest thing I've started to make. My only concern is I can't seem to find anything online about making the stuff, other than a one line wikipedia entry and a resource to a book that I can't find anywhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_green#cite_note-1

"Paris green may be prepared by combining copper(II) acetate and arsenic trioxide"

That's all I've found, however I haven't really looked for experiments in the past, so any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Edit: fixed title typo

[Edited on 4-17-2017 by zts16]
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MrHomeScientist
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[*] posted on 17-4-2017 at 10:17


Where do you plan to get the arsenic? Seems like a difficult thing to find these days. My girlfriend got me some elemental arsenic for Christmas; she lucked out and found some on eBay from Czechoslovakia!

I'm sure that to everyone else in the world, your girlfriend buying arsenic looks a little suspicious :o


Edit: I just saw your other thread about getting it from Onyxmet.

[Edited on 4-17-2017 by MrHomeScientist]
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solitanze
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[*] posted on 17-4-2017 at 10:56


You can occasionally find this substance on eBay. Other than that it is pretty hard to come by.

"Copper(II) acetate was historically prepared in vineyards, since acetic acid is a byproduct of fermentation. Copper sheets were alternately layered with fermented grape skins and dregs left over from wine production and exposed to air. This would leave a blue substance on the outside of the sheet. This was then scraped off and dissolved in water. The resulting solid was used as a pigment, or combined with arsenic trioxide to form copper acetoarsenite, a powerful insecticide and fungicide called Paris Green or Schweinfurt Green."

The LD50 for man is around 1,5 g for a 70 kg person. I wouldn't worry too much.
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[*] posted on 17-4-2017 at 11:16


HAH, Well I found some on Onyxmet here: http://onyxmet.com/?route=product/product&filter_name=Ar...

It's Arsenic III Oxide, and I am not sure if I need need this, or metallic Arsenic. It looks as if they have a variety of substances, that range from the fun to the stupid.


There are two things I wanna know how to find, syntheses and state laws regarding arsenic. Mostly they seem aimed at combating clandestine but the last thing I want is police questioning me about this stuff!
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[*] posted on 17-4-2017 at 11:19


Quote: Originally posted by solitanze  
You can occasionally find this substance on eBay. Other than that it is pretty hard to come by.

"Copper(II) acetate was historically prepared in vineyards, since acetic acid is a byproduct of fermentation. Copper sheets were alternately layered with fermented grape skins and dregs left over from wine production and exposed to air. This would leave a blue substance on the outside of the sheet. This was then scraped off and dissolved in water. The resulting solid was used as a pigment, or combined with arsenic trioxide to form copper acetoarsenite, a powerful insecticide and fungicide called Paris Green or Schweinfurt Green."


Thanks, when I made Copper Acetate a few months ago, I did so after finding out it was also a widely use pigment. I found this too, on the wikipedia page, but again that article is paywalled off.

I also found out, that I could make either Paris green, by combing it with Copper Acetate, or Scheele's Green, by combining it with Copper Sulfate.

The LD50 for man is around 1,5 g for a 70 kg person. I wouldn't worry too much.
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Fidelmios
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[*] posted on 19-4-2017 at 14:47


Sorry I thought I made a reply last time buy I guess I didn't. I am not worried about Copper Acetate, its pretty easy to make. Im worried about finding the Arsenic Trioxide, and extra precautions I may/may not be equipped for.

Quote: Originally posted by solitanze  
You can occasionally find this substance on eBay. Other than that it is pretty hard to come by.

"Copper(II) acetate was historically prepared in vineyards, since acetic acid is a byproduct of fermentation. Copper sheets were alternately layered with fermented grape skins and dregs left over from wine production and exposed to air. This would leave a blue substance on the outside of the sheet. This was then scraped off and dissolved in water. The resulting solid was used as a pigment, or combined with arsenic trioxide to form copper acetoarsenite, a powerful insecticide and fungicide called Paris Green or Schweinfurt Green."

The LD50 for man is around 1,5 g for a 70 kg person. I wouldn't worry too much.
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[*] posted on 20-4-2017 at 03:44


From "Fireworks, The Art Science and Technique" by Takeo Shimizu:

Quote:
Manufacture. One example is shown as follows: 3 00 grams of copper
sulphate is dissolved in 1000 cc of water, to which 250 grams of glacial
acetic acid is added; this solution is named "A". Then 200 grams of sodium
carbonate and 200 grams of arsenious acid are added to 1000 cc of water
and boiled to form a solution; this is named "B". B is added little by little
to A with constant stirring. Carbon dioxide gas is generated with active
bubbling. When all the solution B has been added, it is boiled for about
30 minutes, when copper acetoarsenite appears gradually as green perticles
in the solution. The mother liquor is removed by vacuum filtration, and
the green substance, copper acetoarsenite, is washed with water until the
sulphate ion disappears; it is then dried. The yield is about 180 grams. Too
little acetic acid spoils the colour of the product. The filtrate is also
poisonous and it must be treated with great care. Manufacture is quite
simple, but it is only possible to manufacture it in a chemical plant where
the drainage system is adequate.


I have not tried it.

[Edited on 20-4-2017 by phlogiston]




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[*] posted on 20-4-2017 at 06:27


I am not familiar with As compounds, but the wikipedia entry for arsenious/arsenous acid As(OH)3 says that this has not been isolated as a pure material. So where does one get 200 grams of it?

Also, what would be a good treatment method for the waste?
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[*] posted on 20-4-2017 at 16:17


I am just looking into this right now... but it looks like a common way to treat arsenic is by oxidizing it to As+5 and/or C/F. From this site



Quote:

A cost-effective approach for arsenic removal is coagulation and precipitation (chemical processes) followed by filtration (a physical process), which is termed coagulation/filtration (CF) in the water treatment industry. Common coagulants used for arsenic are iron salts and aluminum sulfate (alum).





However, this is just for treating the ground water.







Quote: Originally posted by pantone159  
I am not familiar with As compounds, but the wikipedia entry for arsenious/arsenous acid As(OH)3 says that this has not been isolated as a pure material. So where does one get 200 grams of it?

Also, what would be a good treatment method for the waste?
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