fleroj
Harmless
Posts: 6
Registered: 30-7-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Disulfuric acid as an oxidizer similar to manganese heptoxide?
I was wondering about this, didn't find out about the properties of disulfuric acid and its salts.
But in theory, it's quite similar to Mn2O7. Both are acid anhydrides, with a similar structure, and strong oxidizers.
Question is, would it have similar hypergolic properties?
|
|
|
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
Posts: 2893
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic
|
|
If it is the anhydride of HO-SO2-O-SO2-OH (H2S2O7) thus (-O-SO2-O-SO2-)2 (or S4O12 or SO3)...
Then it will only display dehydrating abilities and catalytic effects (sulfuric anhydride or sulfur trioxide)
If it is the anhydride of HOO-SO2-OO-SO2-OH (H2S2O9 thus S4O16) ...
Then it is a peroxide and as such it will be unstable and a stong oxidizer...probably into the range of Mn2O7.
But does (SO4)4 or (SO4)n exist?
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
|
|
|
fleroj
Harmless
Posts: 6
Registered: 30-7-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone  | If it is the anhydride of HO-SO2-O-SO2-OH (H2S2O7) thus (-O-SO2-O-SO2-)2 (or S4O12 or SO3)...
Then it will only display dehydrating abilities and catalytic effects (sulfuric anhydride or sulfur trioxide)
If it is the anhydride of HOO-SO2-OO-SO2-OH (H2S2O9 thus S4O16) ...
Then it is a peroxide and as such it will be unstable and a stong oxidizer...probably into the range of Mn2O7.
But does (SO4)4 or (SO4)n exist? |
I figured it could be useful as a chemical firestarter, given that it's basically H2SO4*SO3, and might be more manageable than the pure SO3 as an
oxidizer.
Is that not the case?
|
|
|
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
Posts: 2893
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by fleroj | | Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone | If it is the anhydride of HO-SO2-O-SO2-OH (H2S2O7) thus (-O-SO2-O-SO2-)2 (or S4O12 or SO3)...
Then it will only display dehydrating abilities and catalytic effects (sulfuric anhydride or sulfur trioxide)
If it is the anhydride of HOO-SO2-OO-SO2-OH (H2S2O9 thus S4O16) ...
Then it is a peroxide and as such it will be unstable and a stong oxidizer...probably into the range of Mn2O7.
But does (SO4)4 or (SO4)n exist? |
I figured it could be useful as a chemical firestarter, given that it's basically H2SO4*SO3, and might be more manageable than the pure SO3 as an
oxidizer.
Is that not the case? |
SO3 or H2SO4*SO3 are poor oxidizers they need strong reducer to express oxidative power...
They would be unsuitable as chemical firestarter except with chemicals that are strong oxidizers on their own...
Like:
KMnO4
KNO3
BaO2
NaOCl
NaOClO
NaOClO2
NaOClO3
...
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5102
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone |
SO3 or H2SO4*SO3 are poor oxidizers they need strong reducer to express oxidative power...
They would be unsuitable as chemical firestarter except with chemicals that are strong oxidizers on their own...
Like:
KMnO4
KNO3
BaO2
NaOCl
NaOClO
NaOClO2
NaOClO3
... |
Or with very strong reducing agents.
I suspect that the addition of metallic sodium would start a fire
|
|
|
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
Posts: 2893
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by unionised | | Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone |
SO3 or H2SO4*SO3 are poor oxidizers they need strong reducer to express oxidative power...
They would be unsuitable as chemical firestarter except with chemicals that are strong oxidizers on their own...
Like:
KMnO4
KNO3
BaO2
NaOCl
NaOClO
NaOClO2
NaOClO3
... |
Or with very strong reducing agents.
I suspect that the addition of metallic sodium would start a fire |
See what I have put in bold  ...
Sodium is a strong reducer...
Al may form a kind of thermite with CaSO4
Mg must also be quite reactive towards SO3 since it is able to burn into CO2 dry ice and deliver MgO and C...
==> SO3 must no be too different depending onto the respective amount of reactants one will end up with MgO/SO2, MgO/MgS/S.
Na and SO3 may deliver Na2O/SO2 (what is Na2SO3), Na2O/S and Na2O/Na2S/S/Na2S2/Na2Sx depending onto the respective amounts of réactants.
Into the first case
2 Na + SO3 --> Na2SO3 + heat
It is a simple oxydoredox:
-The sodium passes from 0 to +1 oxydation level (times 2 ==> +2)
-The sulfur passes from +6 to +4 oxydation level (==> -2)
[Edited on 1-8-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
