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Author: Subject: Transdermal lysergamides?
PhenethylamineMachine
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[*] posted on 5-5-2018 at 09:10


Quote: Originally posted by SWIM  
Oils and other non-polar compounds, such as those listed in that patch, do in fact promote transdermal absorbtion, and are the 'common' materials used for this.

You statement that this is not correct is followed directly by your admission that it is correct.:D


That DMSO is not used in the patches is entirely relevant to the question that I was replying to.

I must point out at this juncture that a more careful reading of posts would be much to your benefit.



Please cite my exact statement which claims something to be correct, then incorrect.
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Tsjerk
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[*] posted on 5-5-2018 at 11:01


@PhenetylamineMachine; I give up, if you don't understand why, carefully read your last ten posts.
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Reboot
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[*] posted on 5-5-2018 at 14:33


Quote:
And If you could please elaborate on how charge and PH are essential to a molecule being amenable to transdermal adsorption I would appreciate it.


Protonation of an amine greatly increases the polarity of the molecule, making it much less lipophilic, and thus less able to cross the hydrophobic domains of the skin.

Quote:
LSD has a PH of 6? Please elaborate.


I assume he was simply saying that at normal skin pH (6 or less) there would be enough acidity to ensure protonation of the amine; I don't believe he was implying a specific pKa of the protonated amine.

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Sigmatropic
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[*] posted on 6-5-2018 at 09:48


Saying something which can be summed up as molecule X is evil because Y is nonsensical. And from my viewpoint especially unfair when comparing a street drug with no approved medical uses VS one that has approved medical uses but also happens to appears on the street. Moreover such prepositions prevent a mature discussion of transdermal delivery, to which I will now return. But if you wish I can continue this bickering.

After going through my collection of books I found the relevant chapter. Chapter 8: transdermal drugdelivery from drug delivery and targeting for pharmacists and pharmaceutical scientists by A. M. Hillary, A. W. Lloyd and J Swarbrick.
When I get to it I will upload the entire chapter. For now I hope you are okay with the small excerpt below.

Especially take a look at the table, LSD would be within the range regarding moleculair weight and lipopholicity, the two main determinants for transdermal absorption. Also note that three of the products are amines and there is even a guanidine. I just do not believe that the acidic buffer of the skin is strong enough(quantity wise, not pH) to protonate amines and prevent their transdermal absorption. Also, there is no mention of this in the entire chapter.

There is a mention of a reservoir effect and a lag caused by the relatively slow distribution into the stratum corneum which is especially important for lipophilic drugs. I continue to use fentanyl as an example as it is relatively close to LSD in terms of physicochemical properties. Indeed, fentanyl has a lag phase of up to 12-18 h. Could LSD have a similar lag phase as and could this be responsible for the lack of effect? Perhaps you'd need to dose before going to bed instead of somewhere during the day?
And the reservoir effect may dilute the dose to a point where it is below threshold? The slow release from the reservoir may occur during the onset of tolerance and hence go unnoticed?
Any thoughts on how likely all of this sounds?


IMG_20180506_171214.jpg - 3.3MB
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zed
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[*] posted on 9-5-2018 at 11:57


Intoxication by skin absorption?

Probably, the question is: how much has to get on your skin?

Rhoney Stanley, an Owsley associate, offers a high as a kite "tabbing" story, in her book.

https://books.google.com/books/about/Owsley_and_Me.html?id=C...

A good read.

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[*] posted on 15-2-2019 at 15:10


Quote:

Now one aside to that we could then bring up is this. If the force that caused him to have this peculiar presentiment -- and very peculiar it is -- is the same force that induced him to have this mystical experience, which caused him to focus on this chemical, we can hope it might happen again. 


MARY HOLY MOTHER OF GOD! It happened again!
If this happened to you too, PM me to share some thoughts.




[Edited on 15-2-2019 by beerwiz]
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sodium_stearate
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[*] posted on 16-2-2019 at 08:02


I fail to understand what is so fantastic about this.

It just seems to me that if you get enough LSD
on your skin, that of course some of it will seep through
and make you trip.

Seems to make perfect sense to me.




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because it is dressed in overalls and it
looks like work" T.A. Edison
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itsafineday
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[*] posted on 20-2-2019 at 14:58


At least part of the molecule originates from an endophytic/parasitic fungus . There are examples of these fungi hacking biological systems. This past summer I watched yellow jackets gather something from the outer base of morning glory flowers. I'm guessing it was a honeydew type exudate produced by a ergot relative . The fungi that hack caterpiller brains are in this family.

Obviously the most reasonable answer is that Dr. Hoffman was hacked by an intelligent fungus that manipulated him into sampling lsd. I mean, It's a drug that hacks behavior built by a class of organism that hacks plants, insect social networks and insect nervous systems. I vote for infection by intelligent agent.

But also take this opinion as fun speculation not my serious beliefs (but maybe:))


[Edited on 20-2-2019 by itsafineday]
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beerwiz
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[*] posted on 25-2-2019 at 21:37


Quote: Originally posted by itsafineday  

Obviously the most reasonable answer is that Dr. Hoffman was hacked by an intelligent fungus that manipulated him into sampling lsd. I mean, It's a drug that hacks behavior built by a class of organism that hacks plants, insect social networks and insect nervous systems. I vote for infection by intelligent agent. But also take this opinion as fun speculation not my serious beliefs (but maybe:))
[Edited on 20-2-2019 by itsafineday]


This makes a lot of sense to me, you are on point. Any idea how to feed this "intelligent agent," who knows what else it can teach us.
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