| Pages:
1
2
3 |
EPDGaffney
Harmless
Posts: 27
Registered: 23-5-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Help coding insecticide synth in video game.
Hello, everyone. This is my first post here. I'm browsing these pages for a while learning about chemistry (I have no prior knowledge) as I work on
my mod for Fallout: New Vegas, and I think I need to ask some specific questions. Thank you in advance.
So, the situation is the player needs to navigate a cellar filled with giant aggressive insects. To avoid standard combat, they can fill the cellar
with an insecticidal gas based primarily on DDT. This takes place on a deserted farm and there is a machine that was once used to spray this mixture
on the crops.
The machine has no insecticide left, but there is a tiny chemistry lab that used to be used to make the mixture. This lab contains the following
substances:
Ammonium hydroxide
Bleach (with chlorine)
Drain Cleaner (with sulphuric acid)
Grain Alcohol
Ice
Water
Window Cleaner (intended as a red herring substance, don't know what should be in it)
1. The player is intended to distil Benzene from another item in the game, Flamer Fuel.
2. Next step is to make Chlorobenzene, which I don't know how to do exactly but I gather is feasible with the chlorine gas from the bleach and drain
cleaner.
3. Then make Chloral Hydrate by turning the grain alcohol anhydrous, chlorinating it, adding sulphuric acid to it, heating it, and taking the chloral
hydrate from the top.
4. I'm a bit lost on the next bit but I think I need to combine the chlorobenzene and chloral hydrate with more sulphuric. I don't know what to do
after that.
So, I need help with a few things:
1. Do I have the above right and what steps would satisfy a knowledgeable person playing a computer game?
2. If the player combines any of the materials not intended for this, what happens?
3. Are there any by-products that are part of these operations that I should be aware of?
4. And finally, what flasks do I need?
I'm a little afraid no-one is going to be interested in reading all this, but I'm hoping. Thank you in advance.
|
|
|
12thealchemist
Hazard to Others
Posts: 181
Registered: 1-1-2014
Location: The Isle of Albion
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rare and Earthy
|
|
Question 1:
Step 1: Infeasible in real life, but for a game believable
Step 2: Entirely workable; though using pool chlorinator (TCCA) is easier practically. You'll also need a catalyst, like iron wool or filings.
Aluminium can also be used, along with many other possibilities, but those'll be easiest to work with in the game
Step 3: Plausible for the game
Step 4: Mix the chlorobenzene, chloral hydrate and concentrated sulphuric acid, heat, then pour the result into water. The DDT would precipitate out.
You'd need to concentrate the sulphuric acid by boiling it for a bit first though. More complicated in real life, but for the sake of the game
believable again
Question 2:
Ammonia and bleach is bad news, chloramines and hydrazine are possible products
Ammonia and sulphuric acid just form ammonium sulphate, a fertiliser
Bleach and alcohol will form chloroform
Sulphuric acid and ethanol will form ether at lower (~130°C) temperatures and ethylene at higher temperatures (150+°C)
Question 3:
Step 2: Overchlorination is possible, but the final product would have a similar effect. You'd want to use dry benzene and dry chlorine to reduce side
reactions.
Step 3: Potential formation of chloroform as byproduct; this would not be usable for making DDT
Question 4:
Step 1: Fractional distillation apparatus
Step 2: Reflux apparatus, using either single-neck flask with a tube going all the way into the bottom of the flask or two-neck with the tube going
into one of the necks. The product would then be distilled out
Step 3: Chlorine generated in one flask, various apparatus arrangements possible. Basically, slowly add the acid to the bleach or pool chlorine and
use a tube to take the gas generated out and pass it into even a beaker of acidified alcohol. Other forum members may wish to correct me there,
though. If you use concentrated sulphuric acid again (not loads), the ethanol can be distilled off, followed by the chloral hydrate
Step 4: Reflux apparatus
Precisely which flasks (round bottomed vs conical) is as far as I can tell a matter of personal preference and the reaction that is being carried out.
For the purposes of the game, it isn't vital for these reactions to have one or the other.
|
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4508
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline
Mood: PhD candidate!
|
|
Hi, interesting question you have here.
I would say that what you have so far is accurate enough for a video game that isn't primarily a chemistry game. Knowing that in Fallout, bullets are
crafted from fertilizer and steel, I think it's alright if it isn't 100% accurate. Rendering the ethanol anhydrous can probably be omitted for
simplicity's sake. Making chlorobenzene would require an iron chloride catalyst, but that can be made in situ by having the player throw a bit of iron
in the pot. The chlorobenzene would have to be distilled afterwards to separate it from higher boiling polychlorinated compounds (this wouldn't be
feasible in real life on a laboratory scale, but neither would distilling benzene from gasoline).
To simplify the glassware requirements, you could have a generic "gas generator," "reaction vessel," and "distillation apparatus," that the player can
add components to. You can get ideas on how to make these look from pictures in threads here. Then the player would simply have to add each component
to the correct vessel.
[Edited on 5-23-2018 by Texium (zts16)]
|
|
|
aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
For a Game you'll not need to be accurate at all.
Being so might Downrate the game anyway.
Just need sparkly bits that work if you put them in the right order, hopefully blowing up if you get the order wrong.
Maybe Nasty Gas or other lethal hazard depending on the incorrect-ness of the order in which things are done.
Got to be either an Erlenmeyer or RBF so people will recognise it as 'chemically'.
Don't bother about accuracy - aim more for visual appeal and you'll be right on the money.
Edit:
Harking back to alchemy days, you could have a small and nasty man appear in the glass - a Hormunculus.
Get the Order wrong, forget to put a stopper in the flask, said hormunculus leaps out and wreaks havok.
Might be a nice addition to the usual Gas, Boiling Foam, Explosion kinda scenario.
If you try to make it too accurate you'll end up coding long sequences of nothing interesting happening, tar removal and cleaning the glassware 
[Edited on 23-5-2018 by aga]
|
|
|
EPDGaffney
Harmless
Posts: 27
Registered: 23-5-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
I really really really appreciate the responses. I'm starting to wonder have I bitten off more than I can chew, though. The combinations seem to be
more or less infinite. I loved the idea of affording the player all these choices, but I may have to simplify it by using options like 'Distil off
benzene' rather than 'Set the temperature' and allowing them to type whatever number they want.
The idea was to give the player a chance to mess up, and feel rewarded when they did it correctly (if they have the required stats, they get
instructions representing their character's thoughts), but I don't know how to design this system. It would be convenient for me to code every wrong
combination just to blow up the lab or otherwise remove the misused components from the game, but that probably sounds ridiculous to a chemist.
In any event, if anyone's willing, some very laymen-orientated instructions could really help me here. My understanding so far is this:
I. Benzene.
1. Player interacts with chem set, has Flamer Fuel, is prompted to add to Distillation Flask. (Most other items are to be used by
interacting with their containers in the lab.)
2. Sci-fi filter is attached automatically.
3. Player prompted to set temperature. 68 to remove Hexane. Don't know what to do if wrong temp set. Filter addresses other possible problems
below 80.
4. Then prompted for temp again. 80 to yield Benzene. What happens at higher than 80?
5. Hexane and Flamer Fuel automatically recombine to yield Home-Made Flamer Fuel; added to player inventory.
II. Chlorobenzene.
1. If Benzene is left in Receiving flask, player interacts with Bleach or Drain Cleaner, prompts player to add that substance to
Distillation flask.
2. Player interacts with Bleach or Drain Cleaner (whatever was not done in step 1), gets same prompt. What to do if wrong substance added?
3. Player interacts with chem set, prompted for what to do. If they have Iron Powder (made from scrap metal at workbench), it can be added.
4. Prompted for temp. Incorrect shouldn't ruin it with any finality, realistically, but I'm not sure I want to code the result, either...burning the
place down is much easier. Doing my head in with this. Also, what happens if they set the temperature before the catalyst is in the Benzene?
5. Chlorobenzene added to player inventory?
III. DDT.
1. Boil sulphuric acid -- wait, where am I getting that again? Drain cleaner? TBC
III. Sulphuric Acid
1. Player interacts with Drain Cleaner object, Distillation Flask is empty, player is prompted to add Drain Cleaner.
2. Player interacts with Chem Set, is prompted for temperature (think I read 300, is it?).
3. Sulphuric Acid added to player inventory.
IV. DDT.
1. Player has Sulphuric Acid, interacts with Chem Set, is prompted to add Sulphuric Acid to Distillation Flask.
2. Player is prompted to set temperature (300 again?).
3. Player has Chlorobenzene and Chlorohydrate and water, interacts with Chem Set, is prompted to add them to Distillation Flask.
4. DDT is added to player inventory?
Finally, the idea is that the machine fills the cellar with a gas. I suppose I can just have that all happen in the machine once the DDT is added.
Any ideas on how to gloss that over? 'Insecticde Machine: Contains ______-based propellant and ______. The insecticide is missing.'
I want to give a heart-felt thanks to everyone that's responded. I know I'm a little ambitious for my own good, so it means a lot when people are
willing to help me along with all the mad things I take on.
| Quote: | | ...in Fallout, bullets are crafted from fertilizer and steel... |
I have about 3,000 hours logged in this game and I didn't know that.
@aga
I really hate when games cut corners like that, and if this were my own game, I'd probably be more rigid, but because it's just a mod for New Vegas,
I'm starting to wonder should I accept that you really do have a point, and simplify this process.
| Quote: | | If you try to make it too accurate you'll end up coding long sequences of nothing interesting happening, tar removal and cleaning the glassware
|
Hahaha, you don't know me; that sounds like an amazing game to me. Programming it sounds a little less enjoyable, though.
|
|
|
aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
It isn't working - the bit where you want people to assume you know nothing about chemistry and are actually making a video game.
Make a video game, surprise us all, maybe even yourself.
|
|
|
EPDGaffney
Harmless
Posts: 27
Registered: 23-5-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Oh, forgot Chloral Hydrate, somehow.
Chloral Hydrate.
1. Player interacts with Grain Alcohol object, Chem Set is empty, player is prompted to put Grain Alcohol into Distillation flask.
2. Player is prompted to set temperature (have to check what that should be).
3.Anhydrous Ethanol added to player inventory (what happens to the stuff we didn't need?).
4. Player interacts with Drain Cleaner or Bleach, prompted to add to Distillation Flask.
5. Player interacts with Bleach or Drain Cleaner (whatever was not done in step 4), gets same prompt.
6. Player interacts with Chem Set, is prompted to set temp or add Anhydrous Ethanol. Player should add Anhydrous Ethanol to Receiving flask.
7. Player interacts with Chem Set, has Iron Powder, is prompted to add to Distillation Flask, and does so.
8. Player sets temperature (again, have to check what is correct).
9. Player receives chlorinated alcohol.
10. With chlorinated alcohol in possession, player interacts with Chem Set, is prompted to add to Distillation Flask.
11. Player is prompted to set temperature and does so (again, need to check).
12. Player has Sulphuric Acid, interacts with chem set, is prompted to switch Distillation Flask and Receiving Flask and add the Sulphuric Acid.
13. Player is prompted to set temperature.
14. Chloral Hydrate is added to player inventory.
Does that sound horribly wrong to anyone?
| Quote: |
It isn't working - the bit where you want people to assume you know nothing about chemistry and are actually making a video game. Make a video game,
surprise us all, maybe even yourself. |
I assume that's a compliment on my knowledge of chemistry demonstrated here? If so, thank you but I feel completely overwhelmed, though in fairness
that has a lot to do with balancing the coding side with all the realistic possibilities of the chemistry and deciding where exactly to draw a line
and just not code some things. Still wouldn't say I know much about chemistry, though, if I'm honest.
If it can be confirmed that I understand these operations, at least on a video-game-satisfactory level, I think I'll use this as a base and try to
streamline the gameplay of it a bit (in an effort to finish coding this before we colonise Mars).
Thanks again.
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3558
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
As the enemy is in a basement just mixing bleach with acid will produce chlorine gas,
toxic to all known lifeforms and denser than air.
If the DDT is of sufficient quantity to kill the enemy in a reasonable time frame, your player(s) will have difficulty getting past the DDT unless
wearing suitable protection.
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
|
|
|
EPDGaffney
Harmless
Posts: 27
Registered: 23-5-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
That's a good point, Sulaiman. For game balance, I'd prefer the player to have to do more than that. How much bleach would you need for the chlorine
gas to spread throughout the entire cellar vs how much you'd need to make enough DDT to do the same?
The insecticide machine that the player is meant to use on the vent to the cellar has some potentially fudgeable workings that I may use as an
in-game reason for requiring DDT. Maybe. It's supposed to have some propellant and something to make the DDT come out as a gas (I believe what I
have here yields powder).
As for the player needing to wear something protective when going back down, I have that bit all worked out and I'm mad to put it into action. But
thank you for mentioning it.
|
|
|
TheMrbunGee
Hazard to Others
Posts: 364
Registered: 13-7-2016
Location: EU
Member Is Offline
Mood: Phosphorising
|
|
Oh man, I am so willing to play this game already!! 
Yes, DDT is a powder, practically insoluble in water but soluble in many non polar solvents.
May be gas (chlorine) could not be used because of some kind of active ventilation, so you must spray the thing directly on the bugs. hazmat suit and
gas mask should keep you safe in the sprayed area.
As I found out Flamer Fuel is actually "ethanol mixture combined with the flammable properties of detergent to create a deadly fuel mixture." Benzene
is not supposed to be there.
|
|
|
DrP
National Hazard
Posts: 625
Registered: 28-9-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: exothermic
|
|
I MUST just say that I am a total fan of the 'Fallout' games.... amazingly brilliant computer game. One of the best rpg games imo - up there with the
elder scrolls' Morrowind and Skyrim easy. Loved it. Don't know how to praise it enough! Starstruck fanboy gush over...
I'd have to agree with aga here for sure. It doesn't need to be real or too complex. Just as long as it sounds feasible and doesn't give players too
much of a head ache working it out. Gameplay HAS to be key. If it is cool and fun but made up.... then that is much better than a real sim that is
tiresome, boring and pointlessly accurate for the sake of realism and accuracy. Please don't spoil Fallout by trying to make it a sim. :-)
Did I mention I am a big fan of the game?
\"It\'s a man\'s obligation to stick his boneration in a women\'s separation; this sort of penetration will increase the population of the younger
generation\" - Eric Cartman
|
|
|
EPDGaffney
Harmless
Posts: 27
Registered: 23-5-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | | Oh man, I am so willing to play this game already!! |
Haha, well, if I survive long enough to finish it, next century you can check the Nexus for a mod called Gloomy Sunday Best.
| Quote: | | Yes, DDT is a powder, practically insoluble in water but soluble in many non polar solvents. |
In that case, what substance should already be in the insecticide machine? I need a propellant (I think at least) and something that turns the DDT
into gas. The machine can be made to alter temperatures if necessary.
| Quote: | | May be gas (chlorine) could not be used because of some kind of active ventilation, so you must spray the thing directly on the bugs. hazmat suit and
gas mask should keep you safe in the sprayed area. |
Thanks for the suggestion, but the enemies are extremely fast and there are a lot of scripted events that spawn them. The idea was to turn off all
the events and lay carcasses all about the place and avoid the combat for players that want to use this method. Is there another reason I can use so
that chlorine gas wouldn't work here?
| Quote: | | As I found out Flamer Fuel is actually "ethanol mixture combined with the flammable properties of detergent to create a deadly fuel mixture." Benzene
is not supposed to be there. |
That was scary. But I looked into it a bit and I think you were talking about the home-made variety of flamer fuel and its wiki entry. I don't
remember where I found this out but I remember reading that the standard flamer fuel was petrol-based. The home-made one requires maize and degrades
the weapon quickly.
Glad you're such a fan, DrP. Which of the games have you played? This mod is for New Vegas. The first two Fallout games were something special and
obviously very different to modern ones, whereas the modern ones use that Morrowind engine (with some minor tweaks). Of the modern ones, New Vegas is
the only one made by the people that made the first two. There's a bit of a divide in the community on this. Probably a bit of blood as well.
I tend to go for realism wherever possible, but gameplay is always my top priority. In this case, I'll take some liberties I wouldn't normally take,
but it's more for coding time than gameplay. I am aware that Fallout bases its science as much on 1950s pop misconceptions of science as it does
actual science, so that's something to fall back on.
So, my major questions are still the following:
What is my excuse for requiring this as opposed to simple chlorine gas?
What is inside the insecticide machine to be mixed with the DDT?
Cheers.
|
|
|
DrP
National Hazard
Posts: 625
Registered: 28-9-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: exothermic
|
|
I only played one of them.... 3 or 4 I think on the 360. Played it through several times as different characters. :-) My pal has the latest x-box
and probably has the latest version. If I ever update my old consuls then I will get whatever versions of Fallout are available. I tend to use my PC
now for gaming - might get another x-box in the future. :-)
I was a big fan of Morrowind also.
[Edited on 24-5-2018 by DrP]
[Edited on 24-5-2018 by DrP]
\"It\'s a man\'s obligation to stick his boneration in a women\'s separation; this sort of penetration will increase the population of the younger
generation\" - Eric Cartman
|
|
|
EPDGaffney
Harmless
Posts: 27
Registered: 23-5-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Fallout 3 and New Vegas are the only ones on the 360, so you must have played 3. 3 was a good game but really simplified a lot of what made the first
two as great as they were. FO1 and 2 are much more realistic. Not that they don't have huge scientific gaps as well but FO3 and 4 are a good bit
more gimmicky. Which is fine. It's really about personal preference.
FO1 and 2's publisher and development teams were disbanded and Bethesda bought the rights to Fallout, essentially turning it into an Elder Scrolls
type of game with a Fallout-like setting. They let Obsidian make New Vegas, and the team that did so had several members from the Fallout 1 and 2
teams, causing New Vegas to be a different type of game from 3 and 4 and Elder Scrolls, in terms of design philosophy and lore, despite using the same
engine.
New Vegas has more grounded story design, character interaction, science, weapons, &c. than 3 and 4. So that could be why it seems a little weird
that I want this to be so realistic. Not that New Vegas is completely true to life, but it is more so.
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
Erm, there is a REAL, demonstrated, complete with pictures and stoichiometry process for producing chlorobenzene from commonly available ingredients
with home made equipment at the beginning of the "Pentryl from OTC" member publication by Axt.
Pentryl
Sodium benzoate is used to preserve foods, might well be found on a farm (they made their own saussage?). The rest of the equipment and materials are
drain opener chemicals (Sodium hydroxide, sulfuric acid), Copper plumbing bits and a common pool chlorination chemical (TCCA).
I should play video games again some day, apparently they now come with chemistry? Cool...
[Edited on 5-24-2018 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
CuReUS
National Hazard
Posts: 928
Registered: 9-9-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Texium (zts16)  | | Making chlorobenzene would require an iron chloride catalyst, but that can be made in situ by having the player throw a bit of iron in the pot.
|
Or just use an iron pot
don't give the player any protective clothing.Then chlorine can't be used since it will kill the player also whereas DDT won't
| Quote: | | What is inside the insecticide machine to be mixed with the DDT? |
from wiki
| Quote: | | DDT has been formulated in multiple forms, including solutions in xylene or petroleum distillates, emulsifiable concentrates, water-wettable powders,
granules, aerosols, smoke candles and charges for vaporizers and lotions |
So you could mix it with flamer fuel and spray it.
But I think a more exciting idea would be to make a bomb that would disperse the DDT as an aerosol inside the room.
you could make a bomb using the drain cleaner-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdjR57GV0d8
aerosol produced by explosive detonation -http://home.agh.edu.pl/~km2007/misc/papers/21.pdf
[Edited on 24-5-2018 by CuReUS]
|
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4508
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline
Mood: PhD candidate!
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by EPDGaffney | | Quote: | | ...in Fallout, bullets are crafted from fertilizer and steel... |
I have about 3,000 hours logged in this game and I didn't know that. |
Well jeez, didn't mean to insult your
experience... I guess that's just in Fallout 4.
|
|
|
EPDGaffney
Harmless
Posts: 27
Registered: 23-5-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Bert:
Thank you. I did know about this method and opted for flamer fuel because it's already in the game. I feel that it helps to integrate my additions
more seamlessly if in addition to my chem lab filled with ingredients, one of the requirements is something the player is undoubtedly accustomed to
seeing throughout the entire game world.
All the same, I found that write-up more interesting than a lot of what I've come across, what with all the details and images and the use of
household items. Thank you for that.
On the subject of video games including chemistry, but on a broader note, I don't know when you stopped playing them, but they vary wildly and
currently the worst traits of Hollywood abound in the mainstream. But looking at mainstream games from a few years ago or independently produced
games now, you may be surprised at what details some of them include. If you get the right one, it's like playing a really good film instead of
watching it, or in the case of games like Fallout (1, 2, and New Vegas), it's often like being in a really good book. Not to discount a well made
action game, but that doesn't sound like what piqued your interest. Hellblade apparently plays really well and explores mental illness in a way that
people with said illness(es?) belauded, so I'm keen to grab that one at some point.
Cureus:
I have the iron sorted out. Proud of the elegance of it as well.
Unfortunately for the idea of not giving the player protective clothing, it's already in the game in abundance. Radiation suits and 'power armour'
and such. Also, I'd like to require that the player wear one of those in order to enter the cellar once this is done. You wouldn't have any other
ideas on not using the chlorine gas, would you?
On the bomb ideas, I like them, but I may have to use them elsewhere (haha, now that I know chemistry stuff a bit, I'm going to put it all over this
mod). See, there's this build-up with vents all over the cellar (also, the cellar is the size of the farm, as in, massive), notes about the vents,
little hints dropped by records of the last expedition group recalling insecticide up top. And it's a good many hours I spent modelling the
insecticide machine, so I'd love to use it. It looks like something out of Forbidden Planet.
Texium:
Looking into it, there's apparently a DLC for Fallout 4 that makes this possible. Crafting was so automated in that game that I don't really remember
what I used to make anything, so I was assuming I'd just forgotten, but it seems I never saw it in the first place.
I don't know if there are Fallout 4 fans here but I'd like to clarify that I live in New Vegas and I like it, but I didn't mind my visit to Fallout 4,
either. It was different, but once I stopped treating it like an RPG and started treating it like a post-apocalyptic exploration shooter, I did
honestly have a good time of it.
----------------------------------------------
So, still looking for excuses not to let the player use chlorine alone as opposed to DDT or 'insecticide' as I'll call it, to give myself a bit of
wiggle room.
And if I just have flamer fuel already in the insecticide machine, is that acceptable as a means of spreading a DDT-like substance about the place
like a gas? I don't know that I made it clear but it's to be sent throughout the ventilation system.
Thanks again, everyone. You're all very helpful.
|
|
|
mayko
International Hazard
Posts: 1218
Registered: 17-1-2013
Location: Carrboro, NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: anomalous (Euclid class)
|
|
I don't play computer games much but I can think of a few where chemistry was built in or
Call of Cthulhu: Shadow of the Comet had a subplot where you develop photographs in a 1910 era dark room:
http://www.the-spoiler.com/ADVENTURE/Infogrames/shadow.of.co...
System Shock 2 had a mechanism where you could 'research' your enemies to learn backstory and improve damage against them. It required input of
various elements which added a scavenger-hunt element but didn't have any underlying chemistry but it always seemed like a clever use of setting (a
research spaceship)
al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
"Chemicals, chemicals... I need chemicals!" - George Hayduke
"Wubbalubba dub-dub!" - Rick Sanchez
|
|
|
EPDGaffney
Harmless
Posts: 27
Registered: 23-5-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
My first exposure to direct chemistry in a game was funny enough the bit in Silent Hill 3 where you need to clear a corridor of insects by mixing
bleach with what the game calls detergent but was probably meant to be ammonia. It's probably a translation error or something, as the in-game
description of the 'detergent' is as follows:
It was next to the bakery sink. It's not for dishes, though -- It's for the bathroom.
They even make you turn off the giant industrial fans first so that when you leave the room to escape the vapours, the gas isn't blown over to where
you are.
Besides that, there's the relatively well known SpaceChem.
And some of the Frogwares Sherlock Holmes stuff does it decently. It's not in-depth but it's passable I suppose. It's more about the puzzle-solving,
letting Holmes do most of the heavy lifting in terms of chemistry. The trouble with video games is you kind of need to provide your player with
everything they'd need to solve a puzzle, so science is hard to incorporate without doing it for them. Unless you market your entire game based on
that and then follow through for said game's entirety.
For anyone interested in historical accuracy, the game I'm developing (completely separate from this mod) is called Road Fever. Takes place in 1898
in rural Ireland. It's extremely thorough. You can't reload your gun in combat without having your next clip/magazine/speed-loader already prepared,
for example. Of course, it's a lot of work and it may take me most of my life, but it will exist some day. There will be some chemistry in that one
as well.
|
|
|
LearnedAmateur
National Hazard
Posts: 513
Registered: 30-3-2017
Location: Somewhere in the UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: Free Radical
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by CuReUS |
don't give the player any protective clothing.Then chlorine can't be used since it will kill the player also whereas DDT won't |
Yeah but if the player happened to be wearing a radiation suit (found in vanilla game) then that would, realistically, provide some protection against
poisonous gases. Full body cover + respirator/gas mask = safety. Unless the chlorine gas is programmed to rapidly degrade the suit? Then again it is
just a game after all, going back to how realistic it should be and how complex the coding is.
In chemistry, sometimes the solution is the problem.
It’s been a while, but I’m not dead! Updated 7/1/2020. Shout out to Aga, we got along well.
|
|
|
EPDGaffney
Harmless
Posts: 27
Registered: 23-5-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Indeed. My code is going to check for anything that is equipped to any head slots and offers radiation resistance, and any equipped item that
modifies breathing ability (for underwater swimming). This should account for any item added by any mod, as well as everything in the game already.
What I really want is to flood the cellar with insecticide, then on interacting with the cellar door warn the player to equip something for their
breathing safety. If they don't, their health will drain rapidly on entering.
This is all for my game design perspective. However, I'm still looking for a good reason to force the player to make this more complex insecticide as
opposed to the chlorine gas. I'm thinking I'll place a warning on the machine that says pure chlorine would break it. I've seen what corrosion
damage it can cause, so I'm hoping that would be reasonable.
|
|
|
CuReUS
National Hazard
Posts: 928
Registered: 9-9-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by EPDGaffney |
And if I just have flamer fuel already in the insecticide machine, is that acceptable as a means of spreading a DDT-like substance about the place
like a gas? |
I don't see why not.You can't call it a gas exactly.A better term would be aerosol. | Quote: Originally posted by EPDGaffney | | I'm thinking I'll place a warning on the machine that says pure chlorine would break it. I've seen what corrosion damage it can cause, so I'm hoping
that would be reasonable. |
That's a great idea.Not only Cl2,even the HCl formed from reacting with moisture can corrode circuitry.http://www.er-emergency.com/technical-bulletin-effects-of-sm...
speaking of chemistry in games -
https://www.reddit.com/r/chemistry/comments/88n0x8/found_in_...
[Edited on 25-5-2018 by CuReUS]
|
|
|
EPDGaffney
Harmless
Posts: 27
Registered: 23-5-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Thanks for the links. I find stuff like that really interesting. Even read all the comments on the reddit page, haha. I think the reddit thread is
interesting because they managed to put in something that works on several layers. It doesn't require any prior knowledge, but it communicates to the
player that there is somewhat complex chemistry in action. On the other hand, it seems that if you do have a background in it, you'll be impressed.
Still doesn't amount to much chemistry on the part of the player, but it's nice to see all the same.
There's a bit of chemistry in L.A. Noire somewhere. But what that game does best is historical accuracy (in most ways) and its unique approach to
police questioning where you have to pay attention to the motion-captured body language of each interviewee.
So, I would call it aerosol in the machine, but would a toxic gas still linger in the cellar? This is what I'm trying to achieve.
|
|
|
aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Carbon Monoxide would.
Dips in the landscape surrounding bubbling volcanoes tend to collect it.
Anything that goes into the dip dies unless it's breathing holes are above the CO layer.
Any heavier-than-air gas would collect in the cellar.
Edit:
If the player is slightly above cellar level, they could 'unlock' a huge store of beer.
Then, given time, they could gradually consume the entire stock of booze and flood the cellar with very dilute urine and the occasional upchuck while
randomly shouting abusive/sympathetic/belligerent nonsense at the imaginary occupants before passing out, possibly ordering a kebab or pizza just
before.
The occupants of the cellar would be disabled physically and mentally, with a huge mess to clear up , then the Player could wake up later with a
hangover and continue on with the next level : Hyper Market Booze-Out.
... a bit like like a shoot-out but the players have to choose how much of the beer to drink to ensure the correct weight before hurling the can at
the enemy ...
The 'Big Boss' scene is clearly going to involve industrial volumes of Vodka.
[Edited on 25-5-2018 by aga]
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
