Not logged in [Login - Register]
 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Non-chemistry » Detritus » Member number decreasing drastically? Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues   » Detritus   » Test Forum

Author: Subject: Member number decreasing drastically?
fusso
International Hazard

Posts: 1508
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: ∥ universe
Member Is Offline

Mood: 1500!

Member number decreasing drastically?

Sometime ago I saw the member number was 198xxx, and a few days ago I saw it was 196xxx, and now it's 1958xx. Why is that?(?_?)

Useful sites:
Balance Chemical Equation: http://www.webqc.org/balance.php
Molecular mass and elemental composition calculator: https://www.webqc.org/mmcalc.php
Solubility table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
Azeotrope table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope_tablesIt's not crime if noone finds out - Nyaruko
j_sum1

Posts: 4636
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Oz
Member Is Offline

Mood: Metastable, and that's good enough.

Inactive spammer accounts being deleted.

If you are interested, take a look at the latest offering from sum_lab:
A primer on metals and non-metals with at least one novel experiment.
wg48
International Hazard

Posts: 821
Registered: 21-11-2015
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

A 1% decrease is decreasing drastically ???

That’s a new definition of "drastically" I have not uncounted before.

aga
Forum Drunkard

Posts: 7028
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline

 Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1 Inactive spammer accounts being deleted.

Could get it down to a few hundred if the active spammer accounts were also deleted

j_sum1

Posts: 4636
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Oz
Member Is Offline

Mood: Metastable, and that's good enough.

Don't worry aga. We are getting those too.
But there are thousands of accounts with zero posts. It makes sense to clean up the ones with the same profile as spammers that are being targeted.

If you are interested, take a look at the latest offering from sum_lab:
A primer on metals and non-metals with at least one novel experiment.
BromicAcid
International Hazard

Posts: 2986
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline

Mood: Anxious

In a broad sense I do feel that the quantity of posts per day, especially those describing synthesis is much decreased from the late 2000's. I've personally attributed it to people living vicariously though others YouTube channels instead of carrying out the synthesis themselves.

Shamelessly plugging my attempts at writing fiction: http://www.robvincent.org
fusso
International Hazard

Posts: 1508
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: ∥ universe
Member Is Offline

Mood: 1500!

 Quote: Originally posted by wg48 A 1% decrease is decreasing drastically ??? That’s a new definition of "drastically" I have not uncounted before.
"drastically" doesnt necessary means the %age, it can mean the numerical value (imho), cmiiw.

Useful sites:
Balance Chemical Equation: http://www.webqc.org/balance.php
Molecular mass and elemental composition calculator: https://www.webqc.org/mmcalc.php
Solubility table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
Azeotrope table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope_tablesIt's not crime if noone finds out - Nyaruko
NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard

Posts: 1560
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

 Quote: Originally posted by BromicAcid In a broad sense I do feel that the quantity of posts per day, especially those describing synthesis is much decreased from the late 2000's. I've personally attributed it to people living vicariously though others YouTube channels instead of carrying out the synthesis themselves.

I think this is slightly unfair, although in some cases maybe true. but you need to consider younger people are now pretty much priced out of chemistry.

I have started selling alot of my lab gear, even before the sulphuric acid ban i couldnt get drain opener, i had to order 1ltr of lab stuff at a time. Cost was £27 for the acid and £15 for the postage, £42 just for one chemical.

I also get regular police visits despite being a company, but i carry on with things that interest me. The other big thing is negativity, alot of people dont want to try something until they are confident, so they ask questions.

The problem is often they are jumped on, just go try it just go do this or that. You would be surprised the number of people who watch and read and then decide not to ask.

I asked about black powder and all went well until comments started, so instead of posting up what i ended up doing i just shut up in the end.

But the info Bert and others gave me meant i had confidence to give it a go, its no big deal in some countries but here in the UK playing with black powder can get you some seriously unwanted attention.

Did i take pics? No way did I, in that particular instance pictorial evidence of law breaking would be stupidity, besides the first few goes at it the last thing you want to be doing is holding a camera and not paying attention.

Ok turns out it was a bit of a damp squib except one try , but i didnt know they were going to be pretty tame until after the event.

Maybe more encouragement and except the fact that for many chemistry is extremely expensive, and despite the neigh sayers about most of us are unimportant enough to watch, everyone of you in the uk who buys most chems gets reported.

Sure you can apply for a EPP but its going to cost to comply with storage and the chances are they are on your back from that point on.

Only field of chemistry that seems to be a special case is amateur pyro, no idea why but they seem to get an easier time of it, but they also have a organization behind them trying to look after there interests.

just my 1p
aga
Forum Drunkard

Posts: 7028
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline

 Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry ... younger people are now pretty much priced out of chemistry ...

Rubbish.

A great deal of experiments can be done with little or no money.

Young people find that all the virtual Internet garbage out-competes doing something on their own.

This Internet thing really is getting out of hand.

Revelations 13:16-17 :-

"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a Bitcoin in their right hand, or in their foreheads.

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the SSL Certificate, or the URL of the beast, or the IP Address of his server"

DubaiAmateurRocketry
International Hazard

Posts: 842
Registered: 10-5-2013
Location: LA, CA, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: In research

There are less quality in the energetic materials for sure
NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard

Posts: 1560
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

Quote: Originally posted by aga
 Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry ... younger people are now pretty much priced out of chemistry ...

Rubbish.

A great deal of experiments can be done with little or no money.

Young people find that all the virtual Internet garbage out-competes doing something on their own.

This Internet thing really is getting out of hand.

Revelations 13:16-17 :-

"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a Bitcoin in their right hand, or in their foreheads.

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the SSL Certificate, or the URL of the beast, or the IP Address of his server"

How is it rubbish? I gave you an example above, lets say a very basic kit of equipment without a hotplate is £100 add to that 1/2 dozen small amounts of chems and thats another £50.

£150 for alot of people (especially young or unemployed) is alot of money. I am luckier than most but i struggle to justify what the hobby costs me.

Most people my age who are still at school and have weekend jobs are earning around £75 a week, but thats your weekend gone plus out of that money is all your bus fares etc £25 to bank of mum for rent.

Everyone judges money on there own level, its easy to forget that what some can afford others cant. no idea what the bit coin shit means.

It can take weeks to save enough to do an experiment so better to spend that time preparing and learning. Ok yes you could add vinegar to baking soda, but yippee and deep joy.

Lets be honest most including you would say so what to a write up on how i did sodium acetate.

As for energetic s, understandable its getting less in the UK. Many in places like the states might not understand this, but making things go boom here is like you lot making meth.

Its a no no and carries serious penalties. Bloggers got 8 months for what in reality was pretty minor, he would have got community service for selling heroin!

Banned from chemistry for life!! Even kiddie fiddlers here can get less jail time, ok they cant work with kids after but they dont get castrated and told they cant make kids anymore.

Extreme example but it makes a point, as for spain aga, consider yourself lucky that spain does it own thing. Lets face it the Spanish are famous for not being arsed to put too much effort into enforcing stuff or government itself.

Whats that Spanish word they use for 'when i can be bothered?) starts with M
aga
Forum Drunkard

Posts: 7028
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline

Check out 'Akhil Jain' (utoob + SM)
Also 'Shiva Chemist' (utoob)

Please, explain in simpler terms how you need a lot of $to do any Chemistry at all. A decent internet connection (to post random garbage on web forums) costs a lot more than a test tube and a candle. I guess people choose to buy an iPhone and a data package instead. j_sum1 Administrator Posts: 4636 Registered: 4-10-2014 Location: Oz Member Is Offline Mood: Metastable, and that's good enough. On a board such as this, the culture changes over time. One could argue that this particular forum with its quirky, archaic look is more static than the rest of the internet. But it still changes. As far as I can tell, back a decade and a half, there were a lot fewer SM members. There were fewer posts per day. The place was populated by amateur chemists with more education, more experience and more skill. Chems and equipment were less regulated but online buying was not the same place it is now. And video tuition via youtube was not a thing. SM did not have the same weight on the internet and attracted less search traffic. People used dial-up and their internet habits and site loyalties were different. All of these have changed. They have changed the demographic of those who visit here. They have changed the style and amount of practical chemistry that is done. And they have changed the way that we report and share our activities. It makes little sense to hearken back to the good old days as some kind of mandate for new members to follow. If we really want things different then it is up to established members to contribute high quality posts of the kind we want to encourage - to lead by example. This does get harder as time progresses because as the repository of information here grows, it is harder to produce something novel and postworthy. We might shy away from sharing more routine procedures even if they are new to us because we know the same thing has been written up far better by someone else. This means that the everyday chemistry thread is one of the most important here. Forget that it does not reach the lofty reporting of yesteryear. Pay little attention to the fact that many seasoned members have moved on with other areas of their lives and seldom (or never) post. Instead take note that there is some good amateur chemistry being done, being shared; and that the art and science of amateur experimentation is advancing.  fixed typos [Edited on 3-6-2018 by j_sum1] If you are interested, take a look at the latest offering from sum_lab: A primer on metals and non-metals with at least one novel experiment. Herr Haber International Hazard Posts: 521 Registered: 29-1-2016 Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood I've been lurking on the forum for several years before creating an account. What lead me here ? I probably googled for some synthesis. Actually, I think I had a bright idea and arrived here to see one of the members had patented the idea / procedure a few years before ! For many years, before creating this account I noticed that were a number of awsome people with bright ideas that totally rocked my world (despite being chemists and not planetary geologists). Ideas that I had found in no book, no article whatsoever. New procedures, new bright ideas to make things that were seemingly impossible for the home chemist. I have to admit, I miss the wisdom of some of these old timers that made me read twice or thrice 30 pages long threads. But there are other threads. Other trends too I have noticed ! Less EM, a lot of other things (which is... healthy?). But besides older members, some of which are still very much active we also have gained quite a few new members, some of them very young and to be honest, I've been absolutely impressed by there knowledge, maturity and a couple more positive comments that I cant name in English of these members. If you ask me, I'm certain this forum is not done giving birth to a few gems. Either new synthesis and procedures that will benefit or just amaze everyone or just a few new callings. And how cool is that ? ninhydric1 National Hazard Posts: 340 Registered: 21-4-2017 Location: Western US Member Is Offline Mood: Bleached The chemophobia currently rampant throughout modern society has also severely affected amateur chemistry in general. While I started during the peak of the "anti-GMO, anti-chemical" havoc instigated by explosives as well as research in carcinogens, etc., it's still entirely possible to pursue the hobby. Unfortunately, the general population sees "chemicals" as some sort of taboo (which, from my point of view, is entirely nonsensical), annihilating the hobby in general and burying the benefits (learning, experimenting, discovering) that amateur chemistry would possibly bring. The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next. NEMO-Chemistry International Hazard Posts: 1560 Registered: 29-5-2016 Location: UK Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood  Quote: Originally posted by aga Check out 'Akhil Jain' (utoob + SM) Also 'Shiva Chemist' (utoob) Please, explain in simpler terms how you need a lot of$ to do any Chemistry at all. A decent internet connection (to post random garbage on web forums) costs a lot more than a test tube and a candle. I guess people choose to buy an iPhone and a data package instead.

I would think most young members like myself use the home internet connection that we dont pay for. Just be careful that being unfriendly or negative dosnt put off younger people from joining or posting.

If you live by the safety first thing, then i think its prudent younger people in particular talk through what they want to do, when you dont know what your doing its hard to know what is and isnt safe.

If you dont live in your own house, if your parents are already suspicious of your hobby, then its reasonable to be cautious.

Constant pressure to 'do chemistry' is really not helpful, 3 people i have shared the forum with, and all three refused to join as they perceive it as unfriendly. Thats a real shame as there is no alternative forum.

I am slightly more fortunate in i now share chems and equipment with a couple of other people.

As for my phone that costs me £12 a month, £12 dosnt go far in chemistry and TBH these days its easier to do without chemistry than a phone.

I thought i had found all the tube channels...apparently not! i will remedy that today

[Edited on 3-6-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]

Akhil Jain gave loads of non chem hits, pages of them so didnt bother with that one.

[Edited on 3-6-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]
j_sum1

Posts: 4636
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Oz
Member Is Offline

Mood: Metastable, and that's good enough.

@aga
Shiva chemist regularly pulls out chems that I don't have. Now I think I have acquired a pretty decent stock of reagents, one way or another. But even so, I would be spending a fair amount if I was to duplicate his reactions. Which is to say, even the seemingly straightforward can add up to something quite pricey.

It is not the most expensive hobby. But costs can still be a factor; especially for those just starting out.

If you are interested, take a look at the latest offering from sum_lab:
A primer on metals and non-metals with at least one novel experiment.
BromicAcid
International Hazard

Posts: 2986
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline

Mood: Anxious

Younger people priced out of chemistry? Glassware is 10x cheaper and more available than ever vs when I was doing chemistry in my backyard 20 years ago. Information on how to make 'fun' reagents from OTC chemicals is also much more easily accessible. To think otherwise is delusional.

Shamelessly plugging my attempts at writing fiction: http://www.robvincent.org
G-Coupled
Harmless

Posts: 21
Registered: 9-3-2017
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

It's changed is all - I'm old enough to remember, and have owned Salter Chemistry Sets that contained nothing too wild, but would certainly not be allowed to be used by children today.

These days, glassware is 10x cheaper, as BromicAcid said, and eBay etc. have enabled unprecedented access to second hand, reconditioned and ex-lab equipment at great prices, plus there is more information around now than has ever been around in the history of our species.

What *has* changed is that some reagents have become hard/impossible to aquire due to 'The War on Drugs/Terrorism' - IMO what's changed more is that young people these days just don't seem to have as much interest in sciences like amateur chemistry /astronomy.

[Edited on 3-6-2018 by G-Coupled]
aga
Forum Drunkard

Posts: 7028
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline

 Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1 ... Shiva chemist regularly pulls out chems that I don't have.

Huh ?
Maybe there are several 'shiva' chemists.

Most of the processes i've written down (yes kids, it's like copy/paste but without batteries) do not not involve much cost at all.
Carbonic acid is probably the cheapest.
Sodium bisulphite + metabisulphite involve burning sulphur and baking soda you stuck in the oven for an hour.
Mohr's salt from iron, HCl and ammonium sulphate fertilizer.
Methane from baking soda, vinegar and NaOH.

The one about chromates might get a little expensive.
Clearly i've not watched them all.

 Quote: Originally posted by G-Coupled ... what's changed more is that young people these days just don't seem to have as much interest ...

... interest in Physical Engagement in an activity.

The allures of Virtual Engagement are simply too strong, on every level.

Texium (zts16)

Posts: 3011
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: San Marcos, TX
Member Is Offline