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Pyridinium
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Registered: 18-5-2005
Location: USA
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Mood: cupric
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| Quote: | Originally posted by The_Davster
But what do I know, until this thread I only knew of one drug that used lithium, the stuff for bipolar disorder.
Still not a site I would likely order from.
[Edited on 29-5-2007 by The_Davster] |
I must be naive, but I never thought of lithium compounds as being associated with drug manufacture, either. I guess I'm missing something. Then
again I don't know anything about making drugs.
I've ordered from companies that may have been sugar traps to catch meth cooks.
I am not doing anything wrong, so I should have nothing to fear.
I guess we'll see how that pans out.
I don't want to think LE would have any interest in destroying innocent people. The way some folks talk, it sounds as though you might as well be
dead once they start scrutinizing you. According to this viewpoint, guilt is a foregone conclusion.
Is this really how it works? I know it happens sometimes, but is it the norm, or is it a rarity?
It really upsets me to think that I should be in jeopardy when I've done nothing wrong. Am I to understand that it's only a matter of time before I
go to prison because I'm doing science?
The horror of such a world would be overwhelming, to the point that it would make little sense to get out of bed each morning.
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pantone159
National Hazard
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Registered: 27-6-2006
Location: Austin, TX, USA
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Mood: desperate for shade
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I don't understand what is so special about Li compounds, either. I know Li *metal* is used in meth-synthesis, but that's not really a 'compound'.
LAH could surely be used, but my guess is that this is rarely used in illicit drug synthesis due to its hazards and the availability of other usable
reducing agents. Besides that, I draw a blank.
The lack of a fancy webpage doesn't mean anything to me, either.
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joeflsts
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Antec has had issues in the past that have nothing to do with making drugs - I suggest that people willing to push a myth stop being lazy and do some
research. The data is there if you look for it.
One common theme that I have found with drug cooks on internet forums they are scared to death of buying chemicals. Most of them have no issue with
allowing kids to kill themselves using their products however.
Joe
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Pyridinium
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Registered: 18-5-2005
Location: USA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by joeflsts
Antec has had issues in the past that have nothing to do with making drugs - I suggest that people willing to push a myth stop being lazy and do some
research. The data is there if you look for it.
One common theme that I have found with drug cooks on internet forums they are scared to death of buying chemicals. Most of them have no issue with
allowing kids to kill themselves using their products however.
Joe |
Maybe drug cooks should be afraid to buy chemicals.
The rest of us shouldn't.
I'm not pushing any myth. It would be naive to claim that the drug war (and friends) haven't made it dangerous even for legitimate chemists to
acquire reagents. That theme keeps coming up again and again on discussion boards.
There's always that "what if"... what if they just go ahead and decide you're a drug cook without actually checking it out? Small possibility, but it
does happen. Let's say 98% of the LE who work those things are competent, restrained people who have an interest in justice. There's that 2% who
will just come in and smash up your lab, you, and your life, then find out later that you weren't a drug cook. When the smoke clears, you won't even
get a "sorry".
This happened to Ariel Alonso and Jonathan Conrad. Alonso, an elderly gentleman, died shortly afterward. He was quoted as saying he was ready to die
now, there was nothing left in his life after this. Shortly after that, he did die.
Then there's that well-known author of a couple books on dismantling clandestine labs. If I understand correctly, his books state that there's "no
legitimate home or hobby use" for things like glacial acetic acid. (I guess amateur photographers don't exist).
With that kind of sentiment styling itself as authoritative fact, you should be at least dimly aware that something isn't right.
After all, notions like that one have the power to mobilize unchecked force in your personal direction.
Compounding the problem is that there are some drug cooks on these forums. Maybe more than a few; I don't know how many just lurk. I don't
necessarily like it, but the whole free speech / freedom of expression thing is a separate debate.
I was finally able to find a news article about Antec that hadn't expired. I now see what happened with that.
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joeflsts
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I'm not knocking you. My point is that there is a common reflex by many to claim so and so is a DEA run site when they don't bother to check the
facts.
Again, this wasn't directed at you.
Joe
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alancj
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pyridinium
Then there's that well-known author of a couple books on dismantling clandestine labs. If I understand correctly, his books state that there's "no
legitimate home or hobby use" for things like glacial acetic acid. (I guess amateur photographers don't exist).
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No legitimate use my ass! I have wanted the stuff for making lead acetate. And I have a home lab, and it's legitimate. You (the author) have now been
disproved.
-Alan
[Edited on 30-5-2007 by alancj]
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Pyridinium
Hazard to Others
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Registered: 18-5-2005
Location: USA
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Mood: cupric
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| Quote: | Originally posted by joeflsts
I'm not knocking you. My point is that there is a common reflex by many to claim so and so is a DEA run site when they don't bother to check the
facts. |
You're right about that. I do admit, I get a little touchy about the subject when maybe I shouldn't.
Back on thread topic: $24 / liter of conc. nitric seems to me a decent price, if it's a good purity grade. For precious metal recovery, which I'm
experimenting with at the moment, that makes it economically viable. I figure 1L of HNO3 as 15.8 moles of nitrate ion that can react with silver.
Even assuming it could dissolve only 10 moles of Ag (e.g., due to losses by decomposition to NOx), that's 1.08 kg of silver, roughly 37 ounces.
Adding $24 (+haz shipping) to the cost of 37 ounces of silver seems reasonable, if the scrap can be obtained cheaply enough. That's an optimized
calculation that neglects all the copper and other metals that will also be using up some acid. I also haven't sat down and figured out exactly how
much HNO3 will decompose during dissolving of metals.
If total HNO3 cost w/ shipping came out to, say, $40, that is only about 10% of the current bullion value of the Ag that could theoretically be
dissolved in it.
Now, when the acid starts being $40, $50, $60+ a liter (not incl. shipping) it doesn't sound as good to me.
5 L seems a good starting point for some small scale metal refining work.
As long as someone doesn't level the accusation of 'b0mz0rs'.
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Pyridinium
Hazard to Others
Posts: 258
Registered: 18-5-2005
Location: USA
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Mood: cupric
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| Quote: | Originally posted by alancj
| Quote: | Originally posted by Pyridinium
Then there's that well-known author of a couple books on dismantling clandestine labs. If I understand correctly, his books state that there's "no
legitimate home or hobby use" for things like glacial acetic acid. (I guess amateur photographers don't exist).
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No legitimate use my ass! I have wanted the stuff for making lead acetate. And I have a home lab, and it's legitimate. You have now been disproved.
-Alan |
Alan, I take it that you mean the author of that book when you use the pronoun "You" in the context of "disproved".
For clarity, I used that example to show a dangerous and wrong idea that was originated by someone else, someone who should know better.
EDIT: sorry for the double post, but this was a break in subject from my last one.
I think we all know on here that it is perfectly legitimate to have and use glacial acetic acid, nitric acid, sulfuric acid, etc. The challenge we
face is getting people like the author of that book to change their opinions.
[Edited on 30-5-2007 by Pyridinium]
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woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7976
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
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Mood: interested
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| Quote: | Originally posted by abc
| Quote: | Originally posted by G.i.B.
Sorry, with the just one post here, you do not get that info from me. Have you even looked for chem suppliers in gemany ? They are easy to find.
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I guess with just 11 posts you are telling us how you think people like you should be treated |
I actually do agree with G.i.B.
In the current social climate, we need to buildup trust in each other and need to have an impression of how someone is.
There simply are too many meth-cooks out there (and please, abc, understand me well, I do not say you are a meth-cook, you simply are unknown
to me) and giving a totally unknown person sources for chemicals is not the wisest thing to do. If someone has a proven record on a forum, and has
shown to be a real hobbyist with decent knowledge and responsibility, then I certainly am inclined to give such a person addresses where to obtain
chemicals (and actually, I have given information to quite a few persons from here). So, abc may receive information from me in the future, if he has
proven trustworthy. But for now, it is time to wait and see...
Yes, the hobby of home chemistry is one of patience. For me it has taken many years before I had built up what I have, and before I knew the suppliers
I know right now. Also, finding materials is not always going along official suppliers, exchanging chemicals, chems being offered by people you know
from forums, etc. also is part of the game. Also here, patience is your friend.
[Edited on 30-5-07 by woelen]
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alancj
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Posts: 76
Registered: 16-6-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pyridinium
Alan, I take it that you mean the author of that book when you use the pronoun "You" in the context of "disproved".
[Edited on 30-5-2007 by Pyridinium] |
That would be correct. Sorry for any confusion.
Back to nitric acid….
evil_lurker mentioned this site (High Vally Chemical) as a place to get glacial acetic acid in another thread; here I'm linking to 2.5L nitric acid product detail page. They have
it in for $18.75 per liter, and about $13 per liter in larger amounts (up to 15 liters!). The hazard fee is 25. They seem to sell to individuals and
have online ordering. This is a US company, and a lot of chemicals/lab supplies.
-Alan
[Edited on 30-5-2007 by alancj]
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BeanyBoy
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Registered: 23-2-2007
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oxybate
I'm almost *certain* I remember reading that Antec had been involved in some Fed operation. Someone do a search in the newsgroups or something. Though
I never read the Hive much at all, maybe that's where I learned of this? I heard there may be archives of the Hive available. Someone should check
those too. |
Some of their customers got in trouble with the law and were found to have purchased from them. Another customer did a really bad thing with what he
purchased. Additionally, state environmental officials charged the firm with violations of state environmental regulations, and federal officials
charged them with violating the Clean Water Act. Of course both circumstances would result in the company being scrutinized. Their prices *appear* to
have gone up as a result of both legal fees and fines, but I can't vouch for that, my first visit there and subsequent purchases came after that
(relatively recently).
[Edited on 31-5-2007 by BeanyBoy]
[Edited on 31-5-2007 by BeanyBoy]
[Edited on 31-5-2007 by BeanyBoy]
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benzylchloride1
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Registered: 16-3-2007
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Mood: Pushing the envelope of synthetic chemistry in one's basement
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If you have a close friend or relative that is a science teacher try Flinn Scientific for most of your chemicals. They will only ship to educational
facilities. I bought Nitric Acid for around 30$ for 2.5 L.
They sell most chemicalsthat are needed for scientific experiments
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