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Author: Subject: EGDN from antifreeze
blazter
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[*] posted on 23-7-2003 at 09:05
EGDN from antifreeze


Soon I expect to attempt a mixed acid nitration of antifreeze. The only reservation I have about this procedure is that all the antifreeze mixtures I could find contained diethylene glycol [111-46-6] in addition to the desired ethylene glycol. There appears to be a small amount of dye added to the mixture, which I dont really see as being a problem. Considering that both glycols have fairly high BP's of around 200C it seems that any water that is present could simply be evaporated by carefully heating the solution. The only other components that I am aware of in antifreezes are certain "corrosion inhibitors", I use quotes here since the container does not really specify what they are.

My question is then: what are the chances that the impurities in the antifreeze will impede the reaction, or cause it to become considerably more dangerous? Most specifically, what will I get when the diethylene glycol is nitrated, in terms of sensetivity compared to straight EGDN?

Thanks in advance for your responses, I just want to make sure that the stability of the product is not compromised, or that the actual procedure would become even more dangerous (as in spontaneous detonation/fire).
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Nick F
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[*] posted on 23-7-2003 at 09:32


I use antifreeze (distilled until only around 10% of its volume remains in the distilling flask, in order to remove dye) and it works fine, although I am not sure if that is helpful to you, since my antifreeze doesn't say that it contains diethylene glycol or corrosion inhibitors.
Buy the cheapest that you can find, it is likely to be the purest.
Or get ultra-pure glycerol from a pharmacist and make NG...




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Madog
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[*] posted on 23-7-2003 at 12:08


i once nitrated anti-freeze with mixed acids, the yield was low but it worked.

also, there was a problem, a small amount of gjellyish stuff was inthe product, could this haveto do with the diethlene glycol? thats what i figured.

i would definately distill it the way nick describedand try to get the cheapest stuff. if you cnat distill, just try to get the cheapest stuff and go with that. i just use a copper pipe to distill things like this.




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Madog
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[*] posted on 24-8-2003 at 07:58


i distilled some a while ago and it was still green in the recieving flask!



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vulture
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[*] posted on 24-8-2003 at 12:11


Diethylene Glycol Dinitrate is a powerful explosive too, however, it's quite toxic.

Try removing the dye with activated charcoal.




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the timeless
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[*] posted on 4-9-2003 at 23:58


It is quite difficult to collect just the glygol when you distill it but it is possible. In my opinion it is wise to buy glycerol and make NG. The Edgn is very hard to dry and it gves you a **** of a headache. But glygol is cheap and an OTC it is an advantage.

[Edited on 5-9-2003 by the timeless]
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[*] posted on 10-9-2003 at 00:27


NG ain't no better when it comes to headaches!!
Just keep it from getting in touch with your skin and you should be alright.
The nitration goes pretty easily even with dilute acids.
I used sulfuric that was concentrated by boiling away the excess water and fuming nitric acid and pretty much the only compounds I could nitrate
with this mix were cotton and diethylene glycol. I used antifreeze concentrate and after the nitration the dye was gone- the result was a brownish oily liquid.
I never attempted to detonate it but I ignited a few drops on a metal surface and it burnt vioently with a blue flame.




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[*] posted on 10-9-2003 at 04:54


NG gives you headaches too, but it's nowhere near as toxic as EGDN and DEGDN which are both very toxic. They also produce enough vapour at room temperature to poison by breathing the fumes.



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[*] posted on 10-9-2003 at 23:00
yes!


I didn´t say NG doesn´t cause headaches. Isaid that they are very mild compared to those caused by EDGN, this is due to the fact that EDGN is poisonous and causes therefore worse headaches. It can also absorb through skin or make nasty vapours that really can kill or at least cause you a **** of a headache as I said. And furthermore, it is very hard to dry so dry that it would work properly. You have to have special equipment to do so.
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Marvin
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[*] posted on 12-9-2003 at 09:53


The headaches have nothing to do with toxicity, its a vasodilation effect. EGDN has a higher vapour pressure for a given temperature than NG, thus worse headaches that last usually, for a shorter period of time.
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