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Author: Subject: I found an OXONE product claiming 100%
Loptr
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[*] posted on 31-7-2018 at 18:34
I found an OXONE product claiming 100%



I found an OXONE product claiming it contains 100% of the active ingredient, Potassium Peroxymonosulfate Compound. It's called Robelle Oxidizing Shock & Swim for Swimming Pools. What do you guys think?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Robelle-Oxidizing-Shock-Swim-for-...

[Edited on 1-8-2018 by Loptr]

[Edited on 1-8-2018 by Loptr]




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[*] posted on 31-7-2018 at 18:59


I have found an equivalent sodium product here in Oz. It titrated ok at >98% IIRC. But I was new to this gig and I won't guarantee that my result was without error. It did look a bit dirty -- not a fresh white colour. Using it three years down the track I discover that it just doesn't have the solubility that I expect: it appears to be a mixture with one component a lot more soluble than the other. I have not retitrated. I don't know if the issue is impurity or decomposition.

Anyway, always a good compound to have on hand.
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[*] posted on 31-7-2018 at 23:18


Do a test of it please. I don't believe it because the mono-salt is usually regarded as unstable (unstable to what extent I am not sure). I have asked factories in China about the mono salt and they say they it is too unstable for them to even sell... Pool products are notoriously bad at labeling their percentages correctly. You don't have to go far in the pool aisle to see claims of 113% chlorine by weight, or other stupid things like that.

Do an oxidation test with this product and let us know how it goes. If it works I'm going to stock up.
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[*] posted on 1-8-2018 at 01:32


I just checked my notes and the label. What I have is sodium peroxodisulfate and not the mono salt: not quite the same oxidising properties. But still cool stuff.

What you have found, Loptr may be the same or it may be different. I agree that vague or inaccurate labels abound.
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[*] posted on 1-8-2018 at 02:08


Oxone is not simply potassium monoperoxosulfate. That compound indeed is very unstable. The following stable compounds exist (with long or maybe even indefinite shelf life):
- Na2S2O8 (sodium peroxodisulfate), soluble in water fairly well
- K2S2O8 (potassium peroxodisulfate), only sparingly soluble
- KHSO5·½KHSO4·½K2SO4

The first two are very strong oxidizers (redox potential over 2V), but somewhat sluggish. Silver(I) is a good catalist though. The third one is a somewhat less strong oxidizer, but it reacts quickly.

Some tests:
- Mix the powder with plain table salt and add a few drops of water. If it starts bubbling chlorine gas, then it is the last compound.
- Dissolve some of the powder in conc. HNO3 and add a tiny crystal of AgNO3. If the liquid becomes dark brown, due to formation of silver(III) ions, then it is one of the first two compounds.

These oxidizers all are quite interesting. The only drawback is that a lot of weight of these chemicals is needed for just a little amount of oxidizer. E.g. for Na2S2O8 you have the molar mass of 2Na+2S+7O for only one atom of oxygen (2 available electron vacancies). Compounds like NaClO3 or H2O2 are much more "concentrated" when it comes to oxidizing power per unit of weight.

All three of them are available as pure compounds. The first two can be found easiest as printed circuit board etchants, the latter one indeed is available as swimming pool treatment.

There is one other compound, (NH4)2S2O8, which also is available as PCB-etchant, but this compound is not very stable. It only can be stored for a year or so. It is very hygroscopic and even if it has taken up a small amount of moisture, it decomposes, giving an extremely hygroscopic and strongly acidic mix of (NH4)2S2O7 and (NH4)HSO4. Some of the ammonium also is oxidized internally, leading to formation of N2 and H2O, making the problem of deterioration even worse. I had 500 grams of this and after two years, it was a very wet acidic mass. I dumped all of it.

[Edited on 1-8-18 by woelen]




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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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[*] posted on 6-8-2018 at 11:38


Highly interested.

also the product says 4.7% active oxygen, does that mean its actually the tripple oxone salt?

pure Potassium Peroxymonosulfate would have 11.5% active oxygen, and the tripple salt have 5.8% active oxygen, so why 4.7? maybe theres a little bit less peroxy salt?

Woelen: ""Silver(I) is a good catalist though.""

For what kind of oxidation? Are there catalysts for forming N-oxides?

[Edited on 6-8-2018 by DubaiAmateurRocketry]
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[*] posted on 6-8-2018 at 12:01


Im thinking its the tripple salt i have oxone from the pool isle
It says potassium peroxymonosulfate. Check my signature i have done experiments with it.




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[*] posted on 6-8-2018 at 12:17


Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  


Woelen: ""Silver(I) is a good catalist though.""

For what kind of oxidation? Are there catalysts for forming N-oxides?

[Edited on 6-8-2018 by DubaiAmateurRocketry]


I tested one oxidation with Na2S2O8 and adding a tiny bit of AgNO3 greatly improved the oxidation power.

I added 0.1g MnSO4*4H2O and the stoichiometric quantities of KOH and Na2S2O8 for this reaction to a vial together with enough water to dissolve the reagents
2 MnSO4*4H2O + 16 KOH + 5 Na2S2O8 = 2 KMnO4 + 5 Na2SO4 + 7 K2SO4 + 16 H2O

I added the same mix of chemicals to another vial with the exception that I also added aprox. 0.1ml of 0.1 M AgNO3 solution.

I let the two vials sit for about 10 hours. The vial without AgNO3 had a brown deposit of presumably MnO2. The vial with AgNO3 had some brown deposit as well, but the solution was dark purple. It seems that persulfate can oxidize MnO2 to MnO4 - effectively only in the presence of AgNO3.
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[*] posted on 6-8-2018 at 13:08


re: I tested one oxidation with Na2S2O8 and adding a tiny bit of AgNO3 greatly improved the oxidation power.

interesting, any citation for that?

also what about producing heterocyclic N-oxide? from example pyrazine to pyrazine di-n-oxide.
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[*] posted on 6-8-2018 at 13:20


I don't know whether it would perform that kind of oxidation specifically.

I don't have any reference for the ability of persulfate to oxidize Mn (II) to Mn (VII) only with the help of Ag (I). I only know this because I did the experiment.

Searching on google for "silver catalyst for persulfate oxidation" shows some results though.
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[*] posted on 7-8-2018 at 01:34


Nearly any oxidation by peroxodisulfate is catalyzed by silver(I) ions. E.g. try adding Na2S2O8 to a solution with Cr(3+) in it (e.g. chrome alum). No reaction occurs. If you add a pinch of silver(I) then quickly the solution turns orange, due to formation of dichromate.
I have done many oxidations with Na2S2O8 and all of them work much faster when silver(I) is added.

I doubt whether oxidations of heterocyclic N will work. These are not easily oxidized (nor are other amines, nor ammonia) at the N-atom. But if you want more info on that, let's wait until someone with more knowledge of organic chemistry jumps in.




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