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Daffodile
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Guess who just got raided boys
Was walking through house, saw someone in front yard. Went outside, found 4 officers coming up stairs. Bit awkward. They asked if I lived there, they
explained why they showed up.
Apparently neighbor saw me doing reaction on porch, and today their suspicions of there being an illicit drug lab were confirmed when they saw me
shooting pizza box with bow and arrow back in my yard.
Police came and saw lab/notes/bow and left. But it goes to show the fantasies that grow in people's heads when they see chemistry shit. "You're making
Cyanamide? What does it do? What is it for? Why chemistry when there are so many other options?" Fuck.
A big part of this was the bow and arrow, they called off operation when they found it. Can anyone actually imagine a drug lab guarded by dudes with
replica midieval weapons? "Tyrone, send these niggas a volley". The meme is true.
Still pretty shaken up but yeah guys keep a lab notebook you won't regret it.
[Edited on 18-8-2018 by Daffodile]
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Bert
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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
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Good thing it wasn't a LONG bow.
Which country?
[Edited on 8-18-2018 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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JJay
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How do you think they would have responded if you'd required them to sign a non-disclosure agreement to see your lab notebook?
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Deathunter88
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This honestly sounds pretty reasonable to me. What if you HAD been manufacturing explosives or drugs? After all, the police are responding to a
concerned neighbor. Also, not sure this really counts as "getting raided", but more of a check in by the police to make sure nothing illegal is going
on.
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arkoma
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Somewhere on this forum is a post I put up about three and a half years ago of a very similar incident in Nevada. Nosey neighbors. Police and fire
trucks. My lab notebook is what SAVED MY ASS. They straight told me that folks keeping notes were not generally who they needed to worry about. Glad
it worked out for you.
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
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Loptr
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This also seems to fit inline with how it usually happens. Somebody gets suspicious and calls the police.
Keep it above board and use some common sense. That's all.
"Question everything generally thought to be obvious." - Dieter Rams
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JJay
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If they come and visit like that, it's called a "knock and talk." It's standard police procedure. Their objectives are 1. see if you confess to
anything 2. see if you have any knowledge that will help them solve crimes 3. see if there is any evidence of crime in plain view 4. gain consent for
entry.
I'm pretty sure they have to gain consent for warrantless entry on a knock and talk in all common law jurisdictions. In the U.S., you can't be
required to answer any questions. I'm not sure about in other countries.
There are at least two similar situations. In a welfare check, the police can actually gain entry without a warrant if they think you are in danger,
but they can't use any evidence that they find in criminal proceedings against you (at least in the U.S.). They do have to listen to you if you tell
them to go away.
If they have a search warrant, they can enter without consent, detain everyone in the area, conduct a search, seize evidence, and arrest people if
they have evidence of a crime.
If they have an arrest warrant, they may do something like a knock and talk but with more teeth. I'm not exactly sure what the rules are, but police
departments are very bureaucratic and compartmentalized... I've heard stories of people getting raided for fraud and being handed back their drugs by
the police mid-raid before being asked to come down to the station.
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Daffodile
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I live in Canada, in Victoria, BC. Honestly I get the chemistry suspicion thing but it has been brought to my attention that the neighbors were
terrified that I owned a bow and arrow, and thats the only thing that surprises me in hindsight. Since I'm a university student (fairly young) I
imagined that this sort of shenanigan was commonplace. But it is Canada, after all. I guess all of that died when they started teaching boys to dress
up as girls and dye their hair instead of messing around with sticks and treehouses.
Honestly I am really impressed by my local police force, the more interactions I have, the more convinced I am that they are real solid dudes.
Although I was nervous at the time ("raid" was an exaggeration, I admit) and their obvious intent was to sponge me for anything potentially
incriminating, Apart from one blockhead, the general attitude was that they were genuinely concerned that a misunderstanding was creating neighborhood
tension (albeit some allowance to caution). Any tricks or tactics employed were just the least confrontational way to judge if the situation was okay.
I know that there are some libertarians on here who may disagree, and that likely wouldn't like the idea of cops on their property, but I'm just
saying it how I see it.
Yeah so overall I should go back on the tones of my original post and say that it was really fine. They made an attempt to make me less nervous by
asking interested questions (I don't care if they were forced, it was a nice gesture) such as "How long did it take you to make the bow? Must have
been a lot of work. Did you have to steam it? What kind of wood? Etc". And they made an effort to be polite/ grateful when I offered to show them my
lab and notebook (although I think there was some tension when I tried to explain the chemistry of what I'm doing to the officers with no chemical
background). So yeah it was aight. My biggest concern would be that they would make extrapolations based on what I had there, I once had a guy get
super heated since he saw me with Acetone or Iodine or something they had in breaking bad.
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Loptr
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Quote: Originally posted by Daffodile  | I live in Canada, in Victoria, BC. Honestly I get the chemistry suspicion thing but it has been brought to my attention that the neighbors were
terrified that I owned a bow and arrow, and thats the only thing that surprises me in hindsight. Since I'm a university student (fairly young) I
imagined that this sort of shenanigan was commonplace. But it is Canada, after all. I guess all of that died when they started teaching boys to dress
up as girls and dye their hair instead of messing around with sticks and treehouses.
Honestly I am really impressed by my local police force, the more interactions I have, the more convinced I am that they are real solid dudes.
Although I was nervous at the time ("raid" was an exaggeration, I admit) and their obvious intent was to sponge me for anything potentially
incriminating, Apart from one blockhead, the general attitude was that they were genuinely concerned that a misunderstanding was creating neighborhood
tension (albeit some allowance to caution). Any tricks or tactics employed were just the least confrontational way to judge if the situation was okay.
I know that there are some libertarians on here who may disagree, and that likely wouldn't like the idea of cops on their property, but I'm just
saying it how I see it.
Yeah so overall I should go back on the tones of my original post and say that it was really fine. They made an attempt to make me less nervous by
asking interested questions (I don't care if they were forced, it was a nice gesture) such as "How long did it take you to make the bow? Must have
been a lot of work. Did you have to steam it? What kind of wood? Etc". And they made an effort to be polite/ grateful when I offered to show them my
lab and notebook (although I think there was some tension when I tried to explain the chemistry of what I'm doing to the officers with no chemical
background). So yeah it was aight. My biggest concern would be that they would make extrapolations based on what I had there, I once had a guy get
super heated since he saw me with Acetone or Iodine or something they had in breaking bad. |
I am glad to hear it turned out alright. Just be mindful that this might not be the end of it. Think of the authorities as a sensor net. They report
back and it gets processed and follow on decisions made, so still be careful.
"Question everything generally thought to be obvious." - Dieter Rams
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Daffodile
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Yeah I am a bit concerned about that but when they left the talking one said that he didn't think or see a reason for them ever to come back, and that
set my mind at ease, although hopefully not too much.
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diddi
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there is an extensive thread here on the australian raiding experience. seems most of our raids are initiated by customs notifications on glassware
imports.
Beginning construction of periodic table display
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learningChem
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Ah the police states in so called 'developed' countries are quite an amazing achievment . Exactly what a highly ignorant public 'educated' by the
state would support.
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Herr Haber
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| Quote: Originally posted by learningChem | | Ah the police states in so called 'developed' countries are quite an amazing achievment . Exactly what a highly ignorant public 'educated' by the
state would support. |
Russian joke:
Do you know why policemen are always three ?
The first one knows how to read, the second one knows how to write. The third one is just happy to be in the company of such intelligent people.
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learningChem
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Herr Haber, haha! Thanks you just made my day =)
Of course that's backwards russia, not the Western Free World where sheep are Really Truly Free.
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Panda
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That's just crazy! Sometimes science lovers can have tough times like these. I hope the police apologized for causing any disruptions in your daily
routine.
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symboom
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Experiment responsibility. Kind of like drink responsibly
The moral of this story
http://chemjobber.blogspot.com/2017/08/how-to-end-up-in-jail...
Fellow amature chemist blog
Quote from blog
Surely home chemists on the interwebz have some advice as to how to avoid Mr. Coble's fate and still conduct chemical experiments in their residence?
Quote "the judge has the nerve to say, “I hope you can get back on track after serving your sentence and get into something that uses your
intelligence"
Hobby chemistry is banned in texas
https://amp.reddit.com/r/chemistry/comments/4hbqoo/hobby_che...
news stories shows public preception of amature chemistry.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/12/02/lsquoi-bought-nuke-p...
Buying nuclear material united nuclear
https://www.newsweek.com/peddling-poison-107327?amp=1
Directly at united nuclear. Hobby chemistry
https://m.slashdot.org/story/36929
Hobby chemistry
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/get-geeky-gifts-glow-6C10402...
United nuclear
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25103941
Ironic bbc is the only one with good things to say
Im suprised out of all the news stations england the country with seemingly the stricktest laws against chemicals
the fascinating stories tucked away in the history of chemistry. Like Georgy de Hevesy concealing his friends' solid gold Nobel Prize medals from
Nazis. He didn't want to risk burying them or simply hiding them somewhere. So he used chemistry. He dissolved the medals in a mixture of hydrochloric
and nitric acid, and then he popped the bottles on the shelves of his laboratory, hiding them in plain sight.
The Nazi troopers, hunting for loot, marched straight past them. Then in 1945, De Hevesy used another simple bit of chemistry to recover the gold. He
returned the metal to the Nobel prize committee who had those medals recast and returned to their rightful owners.
Those are the demonstrations that fire imaginations and fuel a love of chemistry. Those are the stories that kill chemophobia.
[Edited on 10-9-2018 by symboom]
[Edited on 10-9-2018 by symboom]
[Edited on 11-9-2018 by symboom]
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JJay
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I think the police were concerned because there was evidence that he'd caused multiple fires previously. He may have been inexperienced, but after
catching his apartment on fire twice, he should have realized that what he was doing was dangerous.
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macckone
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If something catches on fire, you are likely doing it wrong.
Unless it is bbq or flambe.
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The jersey rebel
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Haven't been raided but I'm certain that was only because my neighbors felt extremely uncomfortable reporting me because they knew me and I was a
massive figure in the community I used to live at so they likely feared unintended consequences or backlash. I'll admit straight up that if not for
that, I absolutely would've been incarcerated because amateur chemistry is super illegal here where I'm from and people have been Swatted or even
killed over their labs. In fact, I use all sorts of software to evade detection by the feds for that very reason and because my research seems to
almost constantly get me in trouble with my ISP.
Water is wet, fire is hot, I'm a jersey born rebel
AKA the roguemillenial on other sites.
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DrP
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| Quote: Originally posted by The jersey rebel | | if not for that, I absolutely would've been incarcerated because amateur chemistry is super illegal here where I'm from and people have been Swatted
or even killed over their labs. |
Killed? Where do you live, North Korea?
\"It\'s a man\'s obligation to stick his boneration in a women\'s separation; this sort of penetration will increase the population of the younger
generation\" - Eric Cartman
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arkoma
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@Symboom.
Your supposition about home chemistry being "banned" in Texas is erroneous. Yes, Texas does want you to tell the cops if you have glass. One of our
moderators lives in Texas, and reported a very low key, friendly contact with the police over glass. Yes, a bit intrusive, but not a ban by any
stretch.
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
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symboom
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Quote
Hobby chemistry is effectively banned in Texas. Sending this letter to the Governor.
My mistake
I just restarted the title which has a different context.
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Melgar
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You couldn't tell from his location tag and name? Obviously he lives in the middle of a massive superfund site.
The first step in the process of learning something is admitting that you don't know it already.
I'm givin' the spam shields max power at full warp, but they just dinna have the power! We're gonna have to evacuate to new forum software!
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DrP
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| Quote: Originally posted by Melgar |
You couldn't tell from his location tag and name? Obviously he lives in the middle of a massive superfund site. |
I thought he might be sporting a controversial bright new jumper.
Yea - it's clear - but they kill you there for home chemistry? I find that hard to believe. I can't have understood him properly.
\"It\'s a man\'s obligation to stick his boneration in a women\'s separation; this sort of penetration will increase the population of the younger
generation\" - Eric Cartman
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dawt
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This seems a fitting thread as any to report my recent raid. I just moved into a new apartment a few months ago and my new asshole neighbor thought my
hot pepper plants (which I kept under artificial lighting since I no longer have a garden) was a weed farm. I had four cops ring the doorbell around 9
am while I was working from home. Two detectives and two others acting as muscle. The misunderstanding was quickly resolved, but of course they looked
around the apartment and found my chemicals, I explained what they were for and that was that. They left again after less than 10 minutes.
I'm not so sure it would've gone so smoothly had my neighbor reported a suspicious lab instead, so I'm not really sure how to proceed... For the last
15 years I've always just worked with an open window and never had any trouble, but I guess I'll have to figure out something else now.
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