Basement Chemist
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Venom
Well time to revive the old bioactive forum.... I was wondering if anyone had the structural pic/formula of black widow venom (alpha-Latrotoxin). This
site shows a general picture of it, but you cant see any atoms, and it is therefor useless to the chemist.
Lol forgot to put the site URL up. http://chemweb.calpoly.edu/chem/bailey/377/PapersW03/Carrie/
[Edited on 31-8-2003 by Basement Chemist]
I am curently hiding from the DEA...
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ziqquratu
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First off, if you look at the site you linked to, the actual toxin is around 131kDa in weight - that's huge. I did a quick search on SwissProt (
http://www.ebi.ac.uk/swissprot/ ), but I couldn't find the sequence for alpha-latrotoxin, only a protein that usually gets purified alongside
it and is thus thought to be related in some way... this one is 88 amino acids long, and you can see the sequence (right at the bottom of the page)
at:
http://srs.ebi.ac.uk/srsbin/cgi-bin/wgetz?-id+1TpVg1Lv1NL+-e+[SWALL:'ALAL_LATMA']+-qnum+1+-enum+1
The precursor molecule found on the NCBI database - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&a... is around 160kDa, with 1401 amino acids in the chain.
If you were planning to try and make the stuff, chemistry would be long, tedious and low yeilding if it worked at all. The only realistic way to do
it would be to clone the appropriate gene, a route full of it's own annoyances and extreme difficulties (as it would involve cloning into
eukaryotic cells - using bacteria, which is hard enough, just wouldnt cut it in this situation).
[Edit] If you dont have a decent biology book handy, this site http://www.imb-jena.de/IMAGE_AA.html has a list of all the amino acids with the letter used to symbolize them (eg, A for alanine, R for Arginine,
etc), just in case you were really that interested in the sequences.
[Edited on 31-8-2003 by ziqquratu]
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Basement Chemist
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Thanks very much for all the information. I wasn't really planning on a synthesis of it, just wanted to see what the molecule looked like. But
thank you once again.
I am curently hiding from the DEA...
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Darkfire
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I find snake vemon much more scary, http://www.venomousreptiles.org/libraries/Snakebite%20Photos... myotoxin scares the shit out of me,
CTR
\"I love being alive and will be the best man I possibly can. I will take love wherever I find it and offer it to everyone who will take it. I
will seek knowledge from those wiser and teach those who wish to learn from me.\" Duane Allman
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shadeT
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uf , it realy scared me too . i didn't know that a snake venom can do such things , in my place there are no poisonous snakes ...
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Darkfire
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Yeah vipers scare the hell outta me fo what they can do, i live in an area with a ton of rattlesnakes but othe venomous snakes intrige"sp"
me something awful, im gonna own a few when i move out on my own...
CTR
\"I love being alive and will be the best man I possibly can. I will take love wherever I find it and offer it to everyone who will take it. I
will seek knowledge from those wiser and teach those who wish to learn from me.\" Duane Allman
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Morgan
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A bit raw in places, but interesting now and then.
Snake Venom Superman
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/snake-venom-superman/
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Sedit
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I'm not done watching it so perhaps he will tell but what exactly is his end goal here? Is he just trying to get a buzz or something or is he retarded
and just going on his own superstitions?
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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Morgan
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"As of 2008 he continued to have his wife inject him with small amounts of snake venom.[7] In an August 2008 Florida Trend interview, he stated,
"Aging is hard. Sometimes, you feel useless. But I always felt I would live this long. It was intuitive. I always told people I'd live past 100, and I
still feel I will. Is it the venom? I don't know."[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Haast
Tidbit
http://pfam.janelia.org/family/PF00087
Long ago I read an article in a newspaper about Bill Haast and he described this feeling of creativity that came over him after injecting snake venom.
If I remember correctly he said he felt as if he could he could compose great poetry, things along those lines.
Getting High Injecting Snake Venom
"Steve claims to not only never get ill, but that cobra venom is the ultimate pick me up, with effects lasting a days after injecting, making Steve
stronger, faster and more resilient."
http://documentary.net/getting-high-injecting-snake-venom/
As an aside, when I was a boy I went to the Serpentarium and watched Mr. Haast catch and milk a king cobra. Probably not the best protocol, there
wasn't that much distance between you and the snake, no fence or anything. I still remember standing on those tile-like squares.
http://billhaast.com/serpentarium/immunization_snakebites.ht...
[Edited on 24-1-2013 by Morgan]
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Thebrain
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I was actually bitten by a black widow spider once. Not terribly traumatic. A big red welt that lasted for a couple of weeks. It hurt at first, but
after a few days it just itched. No other symptoms. Just wondering. Does black widow venom have any other activity other than toxicity? Snake venom is
loaded with digestive enzymes that starts the digestive process before the snake's prey is even ingested. I wonder if Black Widow venom might have
similar activity.
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cyanureeves
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Thebrain my old man got bit on the stomach by a blackwidow when he was a kid and it almost killed him.his family had no doctor or no money and was
treated with nothing but herbs,teas and hail mary type chants or something.his neck got really swollen and i think a pustule finally burst leaving a
hole at the bottom of his jaw. it was at the height of the depression when it happened and i think it was told him that the shaman type healer was the
one who brought all the evil out of his body,so the story goes.this lady on t.v. said that to her it was like being doused with gasoline while her
back was being bent backwards with a vice.
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Morgan
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Here's a black widow I caught in the Hill Country of Texas. You can't see it but it also had a little fleck of red at the very end of it's body.
 
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Morgan
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"Relief of pain (analgesia) and feeling of well-being (euphoria)"
"One of the toxins of Crotalus durissus has been shown to act as a pain reliever in mice, apparently by a novel mechanism."
"In a case report of a human bite by a king cobra, Ophiophagus hannah, in New York City, a 30 year old reptile importer was struck by a captive in the
baggage department of Kennedy Airport. "The patient instantly felt a generalized "warm rush" soon followed by euphoria, "brightly colored visual
hallucinations", a distorted perception of the passage of time and "razor-like pain" throughout the right arm." (reference for quote:Warren W. Wetzel
and Nicholas P. Christy: A king cobra bite in New York City • SHORT COMMUNICATION, Toxicon, Volume 27, Issue 3, (1989) Pages 393-395)"
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/snake_venom#Relief_of_pain_.2...
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violet sin
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a small one. but not bad. I only have 2 right now. the others died, though they will be back all over my yard soon as it warms up. really fun to
watch them eat and they last several years in captivity if well looked after. I don't see ANY reasonable way to harvest venom with out destruction,
unless you could temporarily knock 'em out. sounds like a pain. they are quick as shit and awfully ornery too. not to be underestimated as I read
their venom is ~15x as potent as a rattler. sry no specific ref on that last bit but it was a book I held in my own two hands not some random web
page.
edited for clarity, I meant black widows, not snakes of any sort. but yes rattlers live here too.
[Edited on 25-1-2013 by violet sin]
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Morgan
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Last week I saw this guy at night taking the dog out. I didn't know they came in a brown but I happened to notice the red hourglass. Had I known, I
would have tried to photograph the dorsal side too for the geometric pattern. I wonder if a black and brown would mate?
"The brown widow is thought by some researchers to originate in South Africa.[2] The origin of this species is uncertain, as specimens were discovered
in both Africa and South America."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectus_geometricus
Brown Widow Spider
http://cisr.ucr.edu/brown_widow_spider.html
[Edited on 22-5-2013 by Morgan]
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violet sin
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don't forget the young black widows are multicolored: brown, tan, yellow, white and of course red/black. they come out of the egg sack with
camouflage and grow out of it. one I caught a few years back had a large white "eye" pattern on the top-front of its abdomen. it grew out of it in
about 9 months. quite uncommon to take that long though. she lived for 2 years +
I am not sure if this is the case with all the black widow spiders, or just the ones I have seen here in California. but I have had many friends see
a young spider and not recognize them right off as dangerous. depending on where you live ya may have just seen the same. unless there is a reason
specifically for brown widow to be there.
-Violet Sin-
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Morgan
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The black and brown one I photographed was in Florida. Here's some video of a black widow being handled.
Handling a Female Black Widow Spider (Latrodectus mactans)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4OftWZn5BU
I guess my spider has ~320 eggs.
"Brown widows can be located by finding their egg sacs, which are easily identifiable. They resemble a sandspur, having pointed projections all
over,[4] and they are sometimes described as "tufted", "fluffy",[4] or "spiky" in appearance. Eggs hatch in approximately 20 days.[7] Female brown
widows "lay about 80 eggs per sac and can make 20 egg sacs over a lifetime."
[Edited on 22-5-2013 by Morgan]
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violet sin
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I read the brown widows are in california too. mostly so-cal but a couple hot spots around sacramento. I however haven't seen any my self. kinda
cool you got to see one. looking at wiki I was struck by the norther variety. the colors on legs and thorax were really cool!
that vid of the nice sized female being handled was chilling. I could NEVEEERR do that with my spiders. they are all REALLY aggressive. then again
there is a lot of bity stingy competition here. recently I was called to get one from my cousins garage. she kept killing big wasps and throwing
their used corpses at my cousin. ornery to say the least. a lot of character and specific hunting styles can be encountered with a little close
observation. I have seen some that rush in and strong arm anything, some that save up supper sticky goo on the back legs which is actually tossed at
prey, some that tap small lengths of web to prey hobble it like normal spiders. they don't often seen to change up the style so it is a habit or
style. I attribute this to their predominant prey prior to capture.
none of the eggs I removed nor had in cages looked like the pic you posted, but I will keep my eyes open from now on. thanks for the info.
-Violet Sin-
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violet sin
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@ shagydeep: whats your point? which part of what info are we talking bout here?
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Bot0nist
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The part where he can increase his post count?
I thought the articals about novel pain relief was interesting, as well as looking up the structures...
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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violet sin
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I didn't throw in a frown face, just a question mark. I saw he only had 4 posts, Hoping to get a newer member to contribute a bit to the thread, not
scare him off. some of the stuff above is scientific n the rest is member accounts, so chime in. even though I read the thread a as it grew. I
still go back from time to time for a refresher. the first link description of toxin maturation at time of use quite interesting. got me reading
more. only wiki but interesting process.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteolytic
its like the venom is capped in a few places, they then get stripped off to activate the warhead, so to speak.
this was also a decent read, but short. spiders used for war time resources.
http://io9.com/5954691/when-black-widow-spiders-make-guns
this one is dissection of the abdomen to reveal the silk glands, pic's and all, scientific paper
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3341101/
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Morgan
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The other day I noticed the brown widow in my yard captured a green iridescent tiger beetle.
"Tiger beetles are a large group of beetles known for their aggressive predatory habits and running speed ..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_beetle
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