| Pages:
1
2
3 |
Axt
National Hazard
Posts: 778
Registered: 28-1-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Indeed, though it irks me a little that they had the hide to cite someone else 
TCCA is of course a chloramine this not completely related, though it has been discussed in the past. It's reaction with AgNO2 has been mentioned in
the literature however it does not result in the nitramine of the parent compound, which would be very unstable. No mention was given of the product
of the reaction only that it didn't work. There was some discussion on chloramines to nitramines in the <a
href="http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=4282">ethylenedinitramine thread</a>.
|
|
|
Taoiseach
Hazard to Others
Posts: 241
Registered: 16-3-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Axt, have you had any success with the tetrahydroxyquinone/ cyclohexanhexone synthesis from chloranil? Since it is so easy to produce from ASA/
paracetamol I would love to know what other interesting compounds can be made from it - not necessarily energetic ones.
|
|
|
Axt
National Hazard
Posts: 778
Registered: 28-1-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
No I never tried it nor retrieved that article detailing it. I couldn't find any uses for it though maybe other amine condensation products would be
interesting, ones more stable then hydroxylamine/hydrazine products.
[Edited on 31-12-2008 by Axt]
|
|
|
Axt
National Hazard
Posts: 778
Registered: 28-1-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Axt
... so unless theres some freak coincidence that the Z. Naturforsch. B: Chem. Sci. article happened to have what I posted here near word for word
.... Oh well, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
|
I got hold of that article just to see what was in it. Its on the structure of Na & K nitranilate. As for the preparation they give I cant work it
out, being in german. Though it seems to give it in low yield, 17%.
Attachment: Structure of nitranilates - Z. Naturforsch. B Chem. Sci. 1994, 49, 1021 – 1030.pdf (438kB)
This file has been downloaded 3332 times
|
|
|
Formatik
National Hazard
Posts: 927
Registered: 25-3-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: equilibrium
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Axt
| Quote: | Originally posted by Axt
... so unless theres some freak coincidence that the Z. Naturforsch. B: Chem. Sci. article happened to have what I posted here near word for word
.... Oh well, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
|
I got hold of that article just to see what was in it. Its on the structure of Na & K nitranilate. As for the preparation they give I cant work it
out, being in german. Though it seems to give it in low yield, 17%. |
I'm assuming you just want to know the short details quantities, and not the whole procedures. They used 3g 1,4-diacetylhydroquinone for the aromatic
phenol source. Fuming HNO3 was used for the nitro source. And used 4g KOH to form dipotassium nitranilate. The potassium salt yield was 600 mg (17%
theory). For the preparation of the disodium nitranilate-dihydrate, it was "analogous" to the K-salt using NaOH (no amount mentioned), but yield was
960 mg (23% theory) of the sodium salt. I think that tells you what you wanted to know.
|
|
|
benzylchloride1
Hazard to Others
Posts: 299
Registered: 16-3-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pushing the envelope of synthetic chemistry in one's basement
|
|
In an attempt to alter the synthesis of p-chloranil from p-acetamidophenol, I ended up producing p-benzoquinone in a yield of 80%. I was trying to
conserve nitric acid and see what effect low reaction temperatures has on this oxidation reaction. I started with p-acetamidophenol recrystallized
from tylenol tablets, dissolved 15g of the recrystallized material in 100 mL of concentrated hydrochloric acid and then I added 33 mL of concentrated
nitric acid. The foam produced by the reaction filled a 1000 mL beaker. The mixture was stirred with a glass rod and allowed to sit in a snow drift
for 3 hours. Yellow crystals of the crude quinone formed. 300 mL of cold water was added with stirring and the mixture was filtered. The filter cake
was pressed to remove excess water and the benzoquinone was dissolved in about 200 mL of 91% 2-propanol. The solution was heated to boiling and
allowed to cool. Yellow, needle shaped crystals of p-benzoquinone filled the liquid upon cooling. The crystals were filtered off, pressed and allowed
to dry for one day. The final percentage yield was 80% of theoretical. The melting point was taken with a Haake-Buchler melting point apparatus, the
product melted at 117 celsius one degree above the value in the CRC Handbook of Organic Compound Identification, due to a fairly rapid heating rate.
The benzoquinone was instantly decolorized by bisulfite solution, and when added to a solution of hydroquinone, peacock green crystals of quinhydrone
formed. I plan on making some chloranil in the near future for dehydrogenation reactions. The oxidation of aromatic compounds with aqua regia could be
a very useful method for the synthetic amateur chemist.
[Edited on 21-1-2009 by benzylchloride1]
|
|
|
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
The ammonium nitranilate may form a tetraammine copper complex salt, analogous to for example tetraammine copper perchlorate via a similar method.
For example
a warm concentrated solution of copper nitrate is added
to a warm saturated solution of ammonium nitranilate
in NH4OH. During cooling the tetraammine copper nitranilate should, (may) precipitate as crystals. Similar ammine complexes may be possible for
nickel, cobalt, zinc, and silver.
A hydrazinium complex with nickel may also be possible
analogously for the hydrazinium nitranilate.
[Edited on 22-1-2009 by Rosco Bodine]
|
|
|
Taoiseach
Hazard to Others
Posts: 241
Registered: 16-3-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
@benzylchloride1
This is most interesting. Can you give a formula for the reaction? I dont understand why you got p-benzoquinone and not chloranil. Is it due to the
low temperature or dissolving in isopropyl alcohol? Sorry if that question is dumb, I'm not an organic chemistry expert at all.
|
|
|
benzylchloride1
Hazard to Others
Posts: 299
Registered: 16-3-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pushing the envelope of synthetic chemistry in one's basement
|
|
The reaction was conducted at a very low temperature, the chlorination requires the large excess of nitric acid and prolonged heating the mixture at
80 celsius. The reaction procedes through p-benzoquinone as an intermediate that is chlorinated when the mixture is heated. The yield from this
procedure is better then most of the procedures for producing this compound that can be found in sources such as Vogels text book. p-aminophenol is
very easily oxidized; and probably would be destroyed by direct oxidation. The p-acetamidophenol is first dissolved in HCl, which hydrolyzes the amide
group and protonates the now free amino group. The protonated amine reacts slower with the oxidizing agent, aqua regia, producing a fairly high purity
p-benzoquinone. The isopropyl alcohol is just used to recrystallize the p-benzoquinone.
[Edited on 29-1-2009 by benzylchloride1]
|
|
|
Taoiseach
Hazard to Others
Posts: 241
Registered: 16-3-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thx for clarifying that.
p-acetamidophenol is just paracetamol right?
|
|
|
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
I am wondering if the procedure was modified for the synthesis of sodium nitranilate, so that the chloranil was present in 50% excess of theory for
(two) sodium nitranilates, if the two sodium nitranilates would form as an intermediate and then further react with the excess chloranil to form four
sodium chlorides and one
2,5 - 3,6 di-nitranilato-benzoquinone
This would involve overall three chloranils reacting with four sodium nitrites.
Diazoguanidine Nitranilate ( Guanyl Azide Nitranilate ) is another interesting possible compound which may be worth an experiment.
[Edited on 17-2-2009 by Rosco Bodine]
|
|
|
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by chemoleo  | Regarding the interesting patent that Axt attached above:
What is perhaps interesting that these lead salts aren't obvious acid base products, but adducts of some sort, and that they involve the nitrogroups
themselves.
They are formed by dissolving the polynitroaromatic acid in excess of PbO, or by dissolving the lead salt (as formed by precipitating with PbAc2) in
excess PbO.
Using *less* than i.e. 4 moles of PbO with lead picrate, however, does not yield the desired (precipitated) product, so it does need this 4x excess.
It is however possible to add 1 mol of Pb to each nitro group if a PbO (6 molar excess rather than 4) is stirred into *hot* solution of lead pictrate.
The reaction takes some time and its completion is indicated in all cases by precipitation of the adduct.
They tested this for (where the starting compound was the ordinary lead salt in all cases)
- Lead picrate, forming an adduct containing C12H4O18N6Pb5 (4 mole PbO to 1 Pb picrate) - dark yellow and insoluble
- Lead trinitroresorcinate (red powder, deflagration at 255 deg C), containing C6HO11N3Pb4 (3mole PbO to 1 PbTNR)
- Lead trinitrobenzoic acid (red powder), C14H4O20N6Pb5 (4 mole PbO to 1 PbTNBA)
- Lead nitranilate (red powder) (2 mole PbO to 1 PbNA) C6O10N2Pb3
I wonder what the structures of these things are, for instance the adduct of the PbTNBA...
All these adducts are different to the normal lead salts because of
- higher insolubility than normal lead salt
- higher sensitivity, i.e. the Pb picrate adduct explodes when exposed to flame while normal Pb picrate doesn't. |
Such compounds are called clathrates or inclusion compounds. My own theory concerning the mechanism of formation is there is a hydrated basic
hydroxide, superhydrated expanded gel intermediate which in part reacts with the nitrophenol, and then the hydrogel destabilizes, losing water it
collapses, and like flocculating agent it can trap molecules of specific size and character
within the crystallizing gel.
|
|
|
Taoiseach
Hazard to Others
Posts: 241
Registered: 16-3-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
What exactly is "trinitrobenzoic acid" and how can it be made?
|
|
|
not_important
International Hazard
Posts: 3873
Registered: 21-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
1) did you even attempt a search? 1st Google hit is "Production of 2,4,6-Trinitrobenzoic Acid", Org. Synth.; Coll. Vol. 1 also has it.
2) which trinitrobenzoic acid are you asking about, there are 5 isomers.
3) why did you post in this thread?
|
|
|
Taoiseach
Hazard to Others
Posts: 241
Registered: 16-3-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
1) Yes I searched. Can you plz post a link? I do NOT get this as first google hit, infact I dont get ANY synthesis/preparation when I google
2) I dont know which one
3) "Lead trinitrobenzoic acid " was mentioned in this thread as a adduct of a nitroaromatic acid
|
|
|
not_important
International Hazard
Posts: 3873
Registered: 21-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Off the 1st Google page
http://www.osti.gov/bridge/purl.cover.jsp?purl=/769293-j2T6r...
http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/orgsyn/prepContent.asp?prep=cv1...
|
|
|
12332123
Harmless
Posts: 38
Registered: 14-11-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I know this thread has been dormant for a while, but I was wondering if you could react two moles of dinitrourea salt with one of chloranil, such that
each dinitrourea would replace two chlorines one one side forming a tricyclic compound. This would undoubtedly be nicely dense and powerful, though
possible quite susceptible to hydrolysis.
|
|
|
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
some followup ideas
| Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine | I am wondering if the procedure was modified for the synthesis of sodium nitranilate, so that the chloranil was present in 50% excess of theory for
(two) sodium nitranilates, if the two sodium nitranilates would form as an intermediate and then further react with the excess chloranil to form four
sodium chlorides and one
2,5 - 3,6 di-nitranilato-benzoquinone
This would involve overall three chloranils reacting with four sodium nitrites.
Diazoguanidine Nitranilate ( Guanyl Azide Nitranilate ) is another interesting possible compound which may be worth an experiment.
[Edited on 17-2-2009 by Rosco Bodine] |
On the preceding page is an article cited by Taoiseach and posted by sparkgap, attached again here, for sodium nitranilate and derivative compounds.
Compound 6 is
(Di)-aminoguanidinium nitranilate. (Nitranilic acid is a dibasic acid). Aminoguanidinium perchorate and other aminoguanidinium salts can be
diazotized to form the corrresponding guanyl azide (also known as diazoguanidine or azidoformamidinium) salts. This should be a significantly more
sensitive and more energetic compound than is the (Di)-hydrazine nitranilate salt. It is considered that the (Di)-azidoformamidinium nitranilate may
have properties which would qualify it as a primary explosive, similar as is azidoformamidinium perchlorate. There would be predicted a perfect
chemical compatibility for such initiators in physical contact with an azidoformamidinium picrate base charge.
Also of possible interest is a hypothetical energetic compound formed by the reaction of chloranil with four molecules of the ammonium or sodium salt
of 3,5-dinitro-1,2,4-triazole. The hypothetical energetic compound would be 2,3,5,6-Tetra[3,5-dinitro-1,2,4-triazolium]benzoquinone.
Another possible hypothetical energetic compound may be formed from the reaction of chloranil with two molecules of the disodium salt of
Bis[3-(5-nitroimino-1,2,4-triazolate)].
The hypothetical energetic compound would be 2,3-5,6-Di-Bis[3-(5-nitroimino-1,2,4-triazolium)]benzoquinone (nomenclature corr?) Sorry if the names are
awkward ...
I tried ...but these names give me a headache 
Attachment: nitranilat.pdf (409kB)
This file has been downloaded 690 times
Attachment: JACS Bis[3-(5-nitroimino-1,2,4-triazolate)]-Based Energetic Salts.pdf (99kB)
This file has been downloaded 852 times
[Edited on 18-6-2011 by Rosco Bodine]
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
