| Pages:
1
..
11
12
13
14
15
..
27 |
Ral123
National Hazard
Posts: 735
Registered: 31-12-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If that is workable then I can store like 300ml egdn at an apartment no danger(except cops) what so ever. Is pure NG so sensitive that we can rely on
it? Like if I throw glass vessel with 50ml?
|
|
|
quicksilver
International Hazard
Posts: 1820
Registered: 7-9-2005
Location: Inches from the keyboard....
Member Is Offline
Mood: ~-=SWINGS=-~
|
|
When you make a mistake...... it's too late to say you're sorry.
300ml is a LOT OF WEIGHT! It's enough to create a blast wave that will drive objects into you. Close enough; and you're dead, no 2nd chances. Liquid
explosives have a different set of rules and that's why they are not used in industry. The liquid is generally poured into an absorbent, etc.
What's more, YOU don't have to make the mistake. A loved one, a child,a friend, anyone mishandles over half a pound of EDGN or NG and the price paid
is much too steep.
Do the math: even though EDGN is more viscous than NG, it's still over a gram per ml. One ounce is how many grams? Two ounces of TNT is what was used
in the old Mk II "Pineapple" grenade. And TNT is less bisant and slower than EDGN.
EDIT:
Please don't take chances.
[Edited on 12-2-2012 by quicksilver]
|
|
|
caterpillar
Hazard to Others
Posts: 472
Registered: 8-1-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
This nice image reminded me my own experience. Blood, draining from my leg, slowly converted to something like red wax. I made (tryed, more precisely)
NG twice. At the first time I got 5-8 ml of NG and dissolved some gun cotton in it, making blasting gelatine. At the second time temperature went up.
I ran away and was waiting for explosion, that did not occured. I think, NG preparation is too simple and therefore not very interesting (to say
nothing about properties of aforementioned compaund). HMX for example is much more challenging.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
|
|
|
Ral123
National Hazard
Posts: 735
Registered: 31-12-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
What's that thing into his leg? It looks too small for the hole it made? If I'm not going too much off topic, what can make egdn detonate. I'm
currently ready to bet all my possessions and my life vs a dollar that a drop of egdn wouldn't detonate when falls to the ground. What are the risks
of a 100ml pet bottle with well washed egdn? Btw I'm interested in your opinion, but I never keep any explosive in house. Make small quantity, do my
stuff with it, if I regain interest, make more.
|
|
|
quicksilver
International Hazard
Posts: 1820
Registered: 7-9-2005
Location: Inches from the keyboard....
Member Is Offline
Mood: ~-=SWINGS=-~
|
|
Well, friction and static are some of the real hidden devils. The problems start when any liquid nitric ester gets into threads of a container. There
HAVE been means to reduce the risk. Teflon plumber's tape wrapped in the direction of close and the use of saran-wrap over the top to make sure none
leaks becasue then you don't have to crank down tightly the threaded top. The use of a "cork" has never been a good idea becasue it stays in place
through friction. albeit much less than grinding an amount with sandy shoes on a hard floor. There's very little you can do for static other than
attempt to ground yourself at any point you may come in contact with the free material. An automobile can build up a substantial static charge -
people forget that because it's insulated by the tires from the earth, but it can. Any transportation of a free, sensitive explosive with a car or
truck should always have individuals check 1st if they have a static charge.
I used to work at a copper mine and we had collections of grisly photos. I still have them. Management would encourage that, almost. I think that's a
piece of conduit driven into a worker's leg. I have some that I honestly can't look at for too long but I think it's in bad taste to just go OT and
get into"Gore-pornography" simply to make a point. And in this case the format of the explosive is very problematic. The liquid nitric ester would
almost always shoot faster than an absorbent. So why do companies use absorbents? In fact Dynamite and it's relatives are virtually no longer made for
common usage. I think there may be one or two companies left that produce what would be considered dynamite today..... That's significant! It demands
an explanation. And that is that water-gels and det-sheet (or plastique) can accomplish the same bisancy with far greater safety. It's very similar to
firearms safety: you wouldn't sleep with your finger on a trigger because of the POTENTIAL of a discharge occurring.
edit:
Collections of photos (back in 1993!) got into the hundreds of megabytes. And that is a ridiculous amount of still photos of explosive-related
mutilations. That fact alone suggests that the interest in energetics MUST be tempered with a great deal of common sense. The fact that the Child
Protection Act was in response to hundreds of eyes and fingers and hands and genitals being ripped off suggests that this is something to take as
seriously as any other agenda that has a similar potential. The CPSA's issues with fireworks alone didn't occur in a vacuum. Every time an incident
occurs, it's another nail in the coffin of exploring energetic chemistry.
[Edited on 12-2-2012 by quicksilver]
|
|
|
Fusionfire
Hazard to Others
Posts: 219
Registered: 8-7-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
And of course NG is a HE. A bit of glass driven by HE can kill you and the shockwave can burst the alveoli in your lungs or rip flesh off your bones.
But let's talk about something more benign first so that one gets a healthy respect for HE. Do a Google image search for "firecracker injury". If that
is what a low explosive with a deflagration velocity of 300-400m/s can do to the human body, imagine one with a VOD of 7km/s. It isn't like in the
movies where you get thrown around by an explosion; you get torn apart by it!
When I make or manipulate HE it is always with polycarb goggles and a full face visor, in small quantities, on a tidy desk and I always try to put
something between my hands and the test tube/beakers/etc., e.g. tongs + electrician's gloves.
|
|
|
caterpillar
Hazard to Others
Posts: 472
Registered: 8-1-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Some NG stories. One of my friends made it and more than once. In a forest. Nice spring and enough snow to cool reaction vessel (basin, covered with
paraffin). He thinks, that legends overestimate ability of NG to spontaneously explode. But, he never stored NG. The simplest experiment was how it
burns. 1.5 liter was ignited in a hole. Hissing sound, growing column of flame and tremendous explosion. In my city (it was many years ago) one man,
who's bride leaved him and was going to marry to another man visited this ceremony with a bottle, fulfield with light yellow liquid. Probably, he
nocked a wall with it- sew needles was found on the other side of the street.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
|
|
|
freedompyro
holmes1880
Posts: 116
Registered: 16-6-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If your storing NG just add 20% acetone to desensitize. For most things you need it for it's going to need acetone added anyway. NG doesn't exactly
dissolve NC easily.
|
|
|
caterpillar
Hazard to Others
Posts: 472
Registered: 8-1-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Of course I did! I added some acetone to NG and only after it I was able to get blasting gelatine. But, I have to admit, I was unable to blow it up. I
made some shit instead of lead picrate and aforementiond gelatine did not explode.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
|
|
|
freedompyro
holmes1880
Posts: 116
Registered: 16-6-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
It's common knowledge (Or so I thought) that blasting gelatine becomes insensitive after a day and after a week cannot even be detonated by a number
10 detonator in some cases.
You can't let blasting gelatine sit and it's not the easiest thing to initiate either with our without a couple percent un-evaporated acetone left in
it. Blasting gelatine is kind of a pain in the neck. The best way to make it is really to just heat the NG to 40C for six hours or so to dissolve the
NC. (Uh, make sure your PH is perfectly neutral and your NC has stabilizers if you do it this way.)
[Edited on 13-2-2012 by freedompyro]
|
|
|
Ral123
National Hazard
Posts: 735
Registered: 31-12-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Two drops of egdn turned my ceramic mortal grinder into a spectacular fragmentation device. But only with a tiny organic peroxide piece also. Even the
striking part was in at least five pieces. I'm sure NG can't beat that 
|
|
|
caterpillar
Hazard to Others
Posts: 472
Registered: 8-1-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
In my case I definitely know, that poor primer (I think, it actually was not lead salt of picric acide but some shit) was the reason. But why blasting
gelatine may become less sensitive? Acetone evaporates very quickly.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
|
|
|
freedompyro
holmes1880
Posts: 116
Registered: 16-6-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Ral123. In my opinion the brisance of EGDN is higher than NG, however... The initiation force required is higher for EGDN. Even though EGDN is harder
to initiate the viscosity of it allows it to attain higher explosive pressures in smaller amounts than NG. It's only less sensitive because it's a
thinner liquid and moves out of the way of force easier. You'll have to look into the research to see if this is true. That's just my opinion from
personal experience.
Blasting gelatine when freshly made is sensitized by micro air bubbles and those go away after a few days.
|
|
|
aaparatuss
Harmless
Posts: 41
Registered: 12-7-2011
Location: indepth
Member Is Offline
Mood: questing
|
|
while pyrotechnics are interesting, I have never gone beyond smoke formulations.
but while brainstorming about the best ultimate use for a bunch of raw glycerine a local biodiesel producer was getting rid off i did catch up on
some nitroglycerine points...
its seems a simple robotic flow reactor would be needed for making oneself enough dynamite for construction or personal excavating endeavors.
The real path forward i see is the experimentation of catalysts that preserve acid wastes
Al(H2PO4)3 serves as an efficient solid acid catalyst for nitration of a variety of organic substrates with nitric acid (70%).
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S156673670700413X
www.imm.ac.cn/journal/ccl/1304/130412-311-01-484-p4.pdf
Abstract: Vapor-phase nitration of benzene over solid acid catalyst is expected to be a clean process with no sulfuric acid waste
H3PW12O40 catalyzed liquid phase nitration of aromatics —a green process without using H2SO4
School of Chemical and Biological Engineering & Research Center for Energy Conversion and Storage, Seoul National University, Seoul 151-744, Korea
there seems to be plenty of links...
|
|
|
Ral123
National Hazard
Posts: 735
Registered: 31-12-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
There is no sulfuric acid waste in the industry. The question is about home lab. And who cares about more efficient way for NG. We want RDX 
|
|
|
killswitch
Hazard to Others
Posts: 209
Registered: 8-7-2011
Location: is a relative concept
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Question: What would be the properties of a mixture that was (by volume):
65% nitroglycerin
30% methyl nitrate
5% methyl ethyl ketone peroxide (liquid dimeric hydroperoxide form)
|
|
|
quicksilver
International Hazard
Posts: 1820
Registered: 7-9-2005
Location: Inches from the keyboard....
Member Is Offline
Mood: ~-=SWINGS=-~
|
|
How are you expressing "properties"? Do you mean formulation, action as an energetic or chemical activity / storage, utilitarian maintenance? There
would be issues if exposed to climatic conditions and this could throw off the percentile relationship. Peroxides are often deliquescent and methyl
nitrate may also have several exposure issues as well. Unless absorbed (as per Dynamite) or in a sealed container, atmospheric conditions present
problems.
The addition of methyl nitrate and an energetic peroxide do little for the outstanding ability of nitroglycerin to preform work. They seemingly would
enhance problems rather than detract from them. However, often to evade an existing patent, materials are added to an existing material so that it can
be marketed under a different name and claims made for it, however similar to the basic material, could be enhanced simply from a profit standpoint.
[Edited on 19-2-2012 by quicksilver]
|
|
|
killswitch
Hazard to Others
Posts: 209
Registered: 8-7-2011
Location: is a relative concept
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver  | How are you expressing "properties"? Do you mean formulation, action as an energetic or chemical activity / storage, utilitarian maintenance? There
would be issues if exposed to climatic conditions and this could throw off the percentile relationship. Peroxides are often deliquescent and methyl
nitrate may also have several exposure issues as well. Unless absorbed (as per Dynamite) or in a sealed container, atmospheric conditions present
problems.
The addition of methyl nitrate and an energetic peroxide do little for the outstanding ability of nitroglycerin to preform work. They seemingly would
enhance problems rather than detract from them. However, often to evade an existing patent, materials are added to an existing material so that it can
be marketed under a different name and claims made for it, however similar to the basic material, could be enhanced simply from a profit standpoint.
[Edited on 19-2-2012 by quicksilver] |
I mean, would it be detonable from flame? If I'm recalling correctly, MEKP undergoes entropic decomposition, and methyl nitrate is one of the most
sensitive high explosives out there. True, the sensitivity would be moderated by the nitroglycerin, but the mixture would be more sensitive than pure
nitroglycerin, and could potentially be kicked off by the MEKP which would detonate from flame when confined.
|
|
|
SB15
Harmless
Posts: 45
Registered: 23-12-2010
Member Is Offline
|
|
Highly doubtful. None of the compounds you mentioned will reliably DDT from flame, and mixing them together is not likely to create a primary
explosive.
|
|
|
Ral123
National Hazard
Posts: 735
Registered: 31-12-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Total madness. The sensitivity of NG but with volatility. One small spark is enough to detonate the methyl nitrate vapours and everyone to die
|
|
|
freedompyro
holmes1880
Posts: 116
Registered: 16-6-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Why the hell would anyone want to make Nitroglycerin into a fuse sensitive explosive? Killswitch is smoking some good stuff...
Methyl nitrate synthesis itself with mixed acids is definitely not for the faint of heart and requires better equipment than I have... It doesn't have
pleasant runaways like NG! It likes to go KA-BOOM!!!
I don't touch peroxides anymore even though I have synthesized them with no issues many many times. I'm a programmer by trade so I can't afford to
have any accidents. I only use NPED's.
[Edited on 20-2-2012 by freedompyro]
|
|
|
mabuse_
Hazard to Self
Posts: 56
Registered: 3-6-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: |
I mean, would it be detonable from flame? If I'm recalling correctly, MEKP undergoes entropic decomposition, and methyl nitrate is one of the most
sensitive high explosives out there. True, the sensitivity would be moderated by the nitroglycerin, but the mixture would be more sensitive than pure
nitroglycerin, and could potentially be kicked off by the MEKP which would detonate from flame when confined. |
This complete BS.
Since NG is very impact sensitive, you could probably detonate it the kewl way simply by sticking a flashpowder salute to it.
That's what Mr. Nobel did succesfully in the 1860s, a confined blackpowder charge surrounded by NG.
Kind of an NPED... I think thats what you're after.
|
|
|
Bot0nist
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 15-2-2011
Location: Right behind you.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Streching my cotyledons.
|
|
Yeah, A fast flash salute will shoot NG most of the time. No MEKP or methyl nitrate needed. That's (even more) suicidal. A semi-effective NPED can be
made with copper oxide/aluminum thermite and a pellet of ETN wrapped in a layer of foil at the bottom of the paper tube. Works maybe 2 outa' 3 times,
IME.
[Edited on 20-2-2012 by Bot0nist]
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
|
|
|
Ral123
National Hazard
Posts: 735
Registered: 31-12-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I know a guy that doesn't know what a flame sensitive explosive is. He uses flash from firecrackers to set off NG dynamite. He also says 100g flash
sets off anfo  Who thinks methyl nitrate should be in top 3 most dangerous
nitric esters?
|
|
|
freedompyro
holmes1880
Posts: 116
Registered: 16-6-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Methyl Nitrate... Definitely!
You can set off pretty much all number 8 cap sensitive HE's with enough metal confined Flash. Even though flash has a low VoD it packs a ridiculous
amount of power.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
..
11
12
13
14
15
..
27 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
