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killswitch
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Quote: Originally posted by Ral123  | I know a guy that doesn't know what a flame sensitive explosive is. He uses flash from firecrackers to set off NG dynamite. He also says 100g flash
sets off anfo  Who thinks methyl nitrate should be in top 3 most dangerous
nitric esters? |
100g of flash would be roughly equivalent to twenty M-80 firecrackers going off. That wouldn't just cost you fingers; you could be looking at four
inches of soot-blackened radius and ulna where your forearm used to be.
I'm unfamiliar with the acronym NPED.
And if I had to make a list, it would go something like this:
Nitric esters
NC ——— 30.19 --F/g
EGDN -— 19.68 –-F/g
NG ——– 15.03 ---F/g
MHN —— 13.42 --F/g
ETN ——- 11.74 --F/g
PETN —— 1.86 ---F/g
MeNO3 — 0.07 ---F/g
*Units are in Fucks/given.
[Edited on 22-2-2012 by killswitch]
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Bot0nist
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Non Primary Explosive Device. Some people like to use sensitive secondaries (ETN) as primaries by subjecting them to thermal shock, etc, or using a
fast burning and confined binary pyrotechnic mixture like flash or Armstrong's mix to initiate. Some would argue that Armstrong's sensitivity and
speed is such that it can be classified as a primary explosive
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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Ral123
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My sweet EGDN at numer 2? And CH3NO3 safest of all? And you're making a daemon out of that NC 
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Bot0nist
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Um, I believe he is measuring the amount of fucks he gives about the listed explosives, not their sensitivity. I may be wrong though.
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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killswitch
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist | | Um, I believe he is measuring the amount of fucks he gives about the listed explosives, not their sensitivity. I may be wrong though.
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The fucks are given by the experimenter in regards to life and property in the process of synthesizing and employing said explosives.
So, in descending order of safety.
[Edited on 22-2-2012 by killswitch]
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freedompyro
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Your list is retarded... In reality this list in order of most dangerous on top to least on the bottom is like this...
1. MeNO3
2. EGDN
3. MHN
4. NG
5. ETN
6. PETN
7. NC
Nitration of EGDN is more hazardous and causes runaways 3x easier than NG. As for NC I am referring to the 12% nitrogen variety. MHN is a pain in the
ass to purify properly and needs stabilizers asap.
All of these nitrations can be done perfectly safely with the proper equipment and methods.
[Edited on 23-2-2012 by freedompyro]
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Pulverulescent
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| Quote: | | Nitration of EGDN is more hazardous and causes runaways 3x easier than NG. |
Yes, glycol produces a stronger exotherm with mixed acid than does glycerol but its much lower viscosity allows lower nitration temperatures to be
used.
And its lower sensitivity and extra ooomph and brisance makes it one very attractive HE!
P
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"
A Einstein
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Ral123
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I did two runaways with egdn on purpose. Both were 60% nitric-2 parts and 95 H2SO4-3 parts. Then I pump the eg and ruuun. In the first-a lot of brown
fumes, after witch even the sulphriric acid was vaporised nothing left. Second
was similar but I think there was some acid left. Will I get a boom if I add egdn also next time?
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Bot0nist
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Darwin Award? Very likely.
[Edited on 23-2-2012 by Bot0nist]
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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Pulverulescent
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| Quote: | | I did two runaways with egdn on purpose. |
Like ─ deliberately?
Why ─ 'the big question?
P
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"
A Einstein
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freedompyro
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You are not going to be able to create a dangerous runaway just by tossing tons of EG into the mixed acids without cooling. The acids are just going
to burn the material away before it has a chance to be nitrated...
In order to do that you need to create a runaway in a nitration that is half done or more with tons of nitrated material ready to go up. That is why
they use excess acids in NG nitration. No detonation hazard as long as they keep the NG to Acids ratio low enough. As they do acid recovery with NG
nitration's in factories it isn't a waste of acid.
[Edited on 24-2-2012 by freedompyro]
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freedompyro
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| Quote: Originally posted by Pulverulescent | | Quote: | | Nitration of EGDN is more hazardous and causes runaways 3x easier than NG. |
Yes, glycol produces a stronger exotherm with mixed acid than does glycerol but its much lower viscosity allows lower nitration temperatures to be
used.
And its lower sensitivity and extra ooomph and brisance makes it one very attractive HE!
P |
I hate EGDN... It's the only thing that ever gives me headaches... Grrr...
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Ral123
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I think its a good idea to have an idea if things go wrong what and how happens. I know that for MeNO3 and don't do it anymore. I did the runaway
test(with like 200ml or less) where I detonate my half a kilo UN mixtures. May be its madness but its a safe madness and not too far from what the
concept of the forum is.
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killswitch
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I did the list "Least dangerous on top, most dangerous on bottom."
Soo.....
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caterpillar
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During the WWII hungry teenagers made NG. Sometimes they slept, losing temperature control with all corresponding sequences...
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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Bot0nist
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What?
Teens in Hungary, or hungry teens? They feel asleep during the glycerine additions? I would have to be VERY tired to do that.
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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caterpillar
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You will, especially if you have very few to eat. I was not hungry, but sometimes at night I slided in sleep, standing before my bench. Not very
pleasant feeling, because I had lot of iron that at any moment could smash my legs. (and these teens made not grams, of course).
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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textex
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist | What?
Teens in Hungary, or hungry teens? They feel asleep during the glycerine additions? I would have to be VERY tired to do that. |
I saw a tv show and it was about Alfred Nobels first nitroglycerine plant in the UK. He had several huts where it was nitrated placed on top small
artificial hills. Anyways the guy watching the temperature got a one legged stool to keep him from falling asleep. Nobel didnt trust that several
kilos of nitroglycerine would do the job itself.
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inspector071
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I successfully synthesized about 15 mL of NG last night. The synthesis went very smoothly with no noticeable spikes in temperature. I washed it quite
a few times with lukewarm water, then sodium carbonate, more water, then concentrated sodium chloride to drive off most of the water. I put two drops
of it on a paper towel and was able to successfully detonate it with a hammer. I do have a few questions regarding the stuff, though. Should I
desiccate it, or is it relatively stable as is (after removing it from the salt water)? For pretty short term storage will HDPE or PETE containers
safely contain it?
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dann2
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I once read in "The story of Dynamite" (I think) that the makers of Nitro were very displeased regarding the bad name that Nitro was getting
(accidents etc). When they investigated further they found practices that put there hair on end. Sometimes when large quantities of Nitro got frozen
it was known for folks to break it up with sledge hammers.
Also some used it to oil the wheels of squeeky horse drawn wagons when oil was not available.
I could imagine getting skilled at falling asleep on a one legged stool. What is needed is a NO legged stool. You simply hold up the board
yourself
@inspector071
A great fun experiment would be the old 'drip Nitro onto a red hot steel plate + drip onto a dull red steel plate".
I have never read of an accound of someone doing it. Seemingly when the Nitro hits the red hot plate is just fizzles. When it hits the dull red plate
it dotonates 'with great destructive power'.
Has anyone ever heard of anyone actually doing this. Surly a drop on Nitro exploding is not going to do much harm.
A constand row of drops (I would imagine) would be noisey.
Dann2
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inspector071
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I'll see if I can try that out, Dann2. I did the anvil test again, but put about 4 drops onto a paper towel this time. I could feel the shockwave
pulse through my body gently. It really is powerful stuff. I had donned a pair of ear muffs and a full face mask. I shoot firearms for leisure and the
noise of the 4 drops of detonating NG was at least as loud as a powerful rifle. I'm working on setting up a testing rig for small amounts of NG so I
can be a little farther back. Gotta have respect for this stuff.
This is really the first time I've been able to test the detonation of an energetic compound, as my picric acid requires a primary. I've yet to get my
hands on some silver or mercury to make silver acetylide and mercury fulminate. My next energetics will probably be some more picric acid, RDX, and
ETN.
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Heuteufel
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I need some Plugins I don´t have the time to install right now to watch the video, but if my memory serves me correctly, the demonstration you talk
about is shown in a very entertaining way in one of the two following videos of the university of Tübingen (Germany) under this link: nitroglycerin demonstration
I think, it is on the first video under "00:09:30 Nitroglycerin, Eigenschaften (Experiment)", but I´m not sure.
[Edited on 4-3-2012 by Heuteufel]
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dann2
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Thanks alot Heuteufel,
It's there as you described.
Well worth the watch.
Dann2
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Pulverulescent
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The drip clip was fun ─ the demonstrator says OK, when finished and then there's that loud chorus of students asking each other; "what'd he
say"???
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"
A Einstein
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dann2
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He wore no ear protection, which I found strange. The demonstrator must have been practically deaf after the event.
I reckon he said: "Jasus I'm stone fu&*^ng deaf"
Dann2
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