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Author: Subject: nitroglycerin
Ral123
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[*] posted on 11-2-2012 at 08:59


If that is workable then I can store like 300ml egdn at an apartment no danger(except cops) what so ever. Is pure NG so sensitive that we can rely on it? Like if I throw glass vessel with 50ml?
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[*] posted on 11-2-2012 at 13:22


When you make a mistake...... it's too late to say you're sorry.

Injury1.jpg - 70kB


300ml is a LOT OF WEIGHT! It's enough to create a blast wave that will drive objects into you. Close enough; and you're dead, no 2nd chances. Liquid explosives have a different set of rules and that's why they are not used in industry. The liquid is generally poured into an absorbent, etc.

What's more, YOU don't have to make the mistake. A loved one, a child,a friend, anyone mishandles over half a pound of EDGN or NG and the price paid is much too steep.
Do the math: even though EDGN is more viscous than NG, it's still over a gram per ml. One ounce is how many grams? Two ounces of TNT is what was used in the old Mk II "Pineapple" grenade. And TNT is less bisant and slower than EDGN.


EDIT:
Please don't take chances.



[Edited on 12-2-2012 by quicksilver]




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[*] posted on 11-2-2012 at 15:07


This nice image reminded me my own experience. Blood, draining from my leg, slowly converted to something like red wax. I made (tryed, more precisely) NG twice. At the first time I got 5-8 ml of NG and dissolved some gun cotton in it, making blasting gelatine. At the second time temperature went up. I ran away and was waiting for explosion, that did not occured. I think, NG preparation is too simple and therefore not very interesting (to say nothing about properties of aforementioned compaund). HMX for example is much more challenging.



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Ral123
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[*] posted on 12-2-2012 at 01:36


What's that thing into his leg? It looks too small for the hole it made? If I'm not going too much off topic, what can make egdn detonate. I'm currently ready to bet all my possessions and my life vs a dollar that a drop of egdn wouldn't detonate when falls to the ground. What are the risks of a 100ml pet bottle with well washed egdn? Btw I'm interested in your opinion, but I never keep any explosive in house. Make small quantity, do my stuff with it, if I regain interest, make more.
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[*] posted on 12-2-2012 at 08:08


Well, friction and static are some of the real hidden devils. The problems start when any liquid nitric ester gets into threads of a container. There HAVE been means to reduce the risk. Teflon plumber's tape wrapped in the direction of close and the use of saran-wrap over the top to make sure none leaks becasue then you don't have to crank down tightly the threaded top. The use of a "cork" has never been a good idea becasue it stays in place through friction. albeit much less than grinding an amount with sandy shoes on a hard floor. There's very little you can do for static other than attempt to ground yourself at any point you may come in contact with the free material. An automobile can build up a substantial static charge - people forget that because it's insulated by the tires from the earth, but it can. Any transportation of a free, sensitive explosive with a car or truck should always have individuals check 1st if they have a static charge.

I used to work at a copper mine and we had collections of grisly photos. I still have them. Management would encourage that, almost. I think that's a piece of conduit driven into a worker's leg. I have some that I honestly can't look at for too long but I think it's in bad taste to just go OT and get into"Gore-pornography" simply to make a point. And in this case the format of the explosive is very problematic. The liquid nitric ester would almost always shoot faster than an absorbent. So why do companies use absorbents? In fact Dynamite and it's relatives are virtually no longer made for common usage. I think there may be one or two companies left that produce what would be considered dynamite today..... That's significant! It demands an explanation. And that is that water-gels and det-sheet (or plastique) can accomplish the same bisancy with far greater safety. It's very similar to firearms safety: you wouldn't sleep with your finger on a trigger because of the POTENTIAL of a discharge occurring.


edit:

Collections of photos (back in 1993!) got into the hundreds of megabytes. And that is a ridiculous amount of still photos of explosive-related mutilations. That fact alone suggests that the interest in energetics MUST be tempered with a great deal of common sense. The fact that the Child Protection Act was in response to hundreds of eyes and fingers and hands and genitals being ripped off suggests that this is something to take as seriously as any other agenda that has a similar potential. The CPSA's issues with fireworks alone didn't occur in a vacuum. Every time an incident occurs, it's another nail in the coffin of exploring energetic chemistry.

[Edited on 12-2-2012 by quicksilver]




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[*] posted on 12-2-2012 at 12:16


And of course NG is a HE. A bit of glass driven by HE can kill you and the shockwave can burst the alveoli in your lungs or rip flesh off your bones.

But let's talk about something more benign first so that one gets a healthy respect for HE. Do a Google image search for "firecracker injury". If that is what a low explosive with a deflagration velocity of 300-400m/s can do to the human body, imagine one with a VOD of 7km/s. It isn't like in the movies where you get thrown around by an explosion; you get torn apart by it!

When I make or manipulate HE it is always with polycarb goggles and a full face visor, in small quantities, on a tidy desk and I always try to put something between my hands and the test tube/beakers/etc., e.g. tongs + electrician's gloves.
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[*] posted on 12-2-2012 at 15:21


Some NG stories. One of my friends made it and more than once. In a forest. Nice spring and enough snow to cool reaction vessel (basin, covered with paraffin). He thinks, that legends overestimate ability of NG to spontaneously explode. But, he never stored NG. The simplest experiment was how it burns. 1.5 liter was ignited in a hole. Hissing sound, growing column of flame and tremendous explosion. In my city (it was many years ago) one man, who's bride leaved him and was going to marry to another man visited this ceremony with a bottle, fulfield with light yellow liquid. Probably, he nocked a wall with it- sew needles was found on the other side of the street.



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[*] posted on 12-2-2012 at 18:25


If your storing NG just add 20% acetone to desensitize. For most things you need it for it's going to need acetone added anyway. NG doesn't exactly dissolve NC easily.
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[*] posted on 12-2-2012 at 22:03


Of course I did! I added some acetone to NG and only after it I was able to get blasting gelatine. But, I have to admit, I was unable to blow it up. I made some shit instead of lead picrate and aforementiond gelatine did not explode.



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[*] posted on 13-2-2012 at 01:34


It's common knowledge (Or so I thought) that blasting gelatine becomes insensitive after a day and after a week cannot even be detonated by a number 10 detonator in some cases.

You can't let blasting gelatine sit and it's not the easiest thing to initiate either with our without a couple percent un-evaporated acetone left in it. Blasting gelatine is kind of a pain in the neck. The best way to make it is really to just heat the NG to 40C for six hours or so to dissolve the NC. (Uh, make sure your PH is perfectly neutral and your NC has stabilizers if you do it this way.)

[Edited on 13-2-2012 by freedompyro]
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Ral123
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[*] posted on 13-2-2012 at 01:53


Two drops of egdn turned my ceramic mortal grinder into a spectacular fragmentation device. But only with a tiny organic peroxide piece also. Even the striking part was in at least five pieces. I'm sure NG can't beat that :P
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[*] posted on 13-2-2012 at 05:17


In my case I definitely know, that poor primer (I think, it actually was not lead salt of picric acide but some shit) was the reason. But why blasting gelatine may become less sensitive? Acetone evaporates very quickly.



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[*] posted on 13-2-2012 at 23:31


Ral123. In my opinion the brisance of EGDN is higher than NG, however... The initiation force required is higher for EGDN. Even though EGDN is harder to initiate the viscosity of it allows it to attain higher explosive pressures in smaller amounts than NG. It's only less sensitive because it's a thinner liquid and moves out of the way of force easier. You'll have to look into the research to see if this is true. That's just my opinion from personal experience.

Blasting gelatine when freshly made is sensitized by micro air bubbles and those go away after a few days.
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[*] posted on 14-2-2012 at 20:03


while pyrotechnics are interesting, I have never gone beyond smoke formulations.

but while brainstorming about the best ultimate use for a bunch of raw glycerine a local biodiesel producer was getting rid off i did catch up on some nitroglycerine points...

its seems a simple robotic flow reactor would be needed for making oneself enough dynamite for construction or personal excavating endeavors.

The real path forward i see is the experimentation of catalysts that preserve acid wastes

Al(H2PO4)3 serves as an efficient solid acid catalyst for nitration of a variety of organic substrates with nitric acid (70%).
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S156673670700413X


www.imm.ac.cn/journal/ccl/1304/130412-311-01-484-p4.pdf
Abstract: Vapor-phase nitration of benzene over solid acid catalyst is expected to be a clean process with no sulfuric acid waste


H3PW12O40 catalyzed liquid phase nitration of aromatics —a green process without using H2SO4
School of Chemical and Biological Engineering & Research Center for Energy Conversion and Storage, Seoul National University, Seoul 151-744, Korea



there seems to be plenty of links...









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Ral123
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[*] posted on 15-2-2012 at 01:59


There is no sulfuric acid waste in the industry. The question is about home lab. And who cares about more efficient way for NG. We want RDX :D
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[*] posted on 18-2-2012 at 15:13


Question: What would be the properties of a mixture that was (by volume):
65% nitroglycerin
30% methyl nitrate
5% methyl ethyl ketone peroxide (liquid dimeric hydroperoxide form)
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[*] posted on 19-2-2012 at 07:15


How are you expressing "properties"? Do you mean formulation, action as an energetic or chemical activity / storage, utilitarian maintenance? There would be issues if exposed to climatic conditions and this could throw off the percentile relationship. Peroxides are often deliquescent and methyl nitrate may also have several exposure issues as well. Unless absorbed (as per Dynamite) or in a sealed container, atmospheric conditions present problems.
The addition of methyl nitrate and an energetic peroxide do little for the outstanding ability of nitroglycerin to preform work. They seemingly would enhance problems rather than detract from them. However, often to evade an existing patent, materials are added to an existing material so that it can be marketed under a different name and claims made for it, however similar to the basic material, could be enhanced simply from a profit standpoint.

[Edited on 19-2-2012 by quicksilver]




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[*] posted on 19-2-2012 at 09:05


Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver  
How are you expressing "properties"? Do you mean formulation, action as an energetic or chemical activity / storage, utilitarian maintenance? There would be issues if exposed to climatic conditions and this could throw off the percentile relationship. Peroxides are often deliquescent and methyl nitrate may also have several exposure issues as well. Unless absorbed (as per Dynamite) or in a sealed container, atmospheric conditions present problems.
The addition of methyl nitrate and an energetic peroxide do little for the outstanding ability of nitroglycerin to preform work. They seemingly would enhance problems rather than detract from them. However, often to evade an existing patent, materials are added to an existing material so that it can be marketed under a different name and claims made for it, however similar to the basic material, could be enhanced simply from a profit standpoint.

[Edited on 19-2-2012 by quicksilver]


I mean, would it be detonable from flame? If I'm recalling correctly, MEKP undergoes entropic decomposition, and methyl nitrate is one of the most sensitive high explosives out there. True, the sensitivity would be moderated by the nitroglycerin, but the mixture would be more sensitive than pure nitroglycerin, and could potentially be kicked off by the MEKP which would detonate from flame when confined.
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[*] posted on 19-2-2012 at 17:01


Quote: Originally posted by killswitch  
I mean, would it be detonable from flame?


Highly doubtful. None of the compounds you mentioned will reliably DDT from flame, and mixing them together is not likely to create a primary explosive.
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[*] posted on 20-2-2012 at 00:44


Total madness. The sensitivity of NG but with volatility. One small spark is enough to detonate the methyl nitrate vapours and everyone to die :D
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[*] posted on 20-2-2012 at 01:06


Why the hell would anyone want to make Nitroglycerin into a fuse sensitive explosive? Killswitch is smoking some good stuff...

Methyl nitrate synthesis itself with mixed acids is definitely not for the faint of heart and requires better equipment than I have... It doesn't have pleasant runaways like NG! It likes to go KA-BOOM!!!

I don't touch peroxides anymore even though I have synthesized them with no issues many many times. I'm a programmer by trade so I can't afford to have any accidents. I only use NPED's.

[Edited on 20-2-2012 by freedompyro]
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[*] posted on 20-2-2012 at 08:27



Quote:

I mean, would it be detonable from flame? If I'm recalling correctly, MEKP undergoes entropic decomposition, and methyl nitrate is one of the most sensitive high explosives out there. True, the sensitivity would be moderated by the nitroglycerin, but the mixture would be more sensitive than pure nitroglycerin, and could potentially be kicked off by the MEKP which would detonate from flame when confined.

This complete BS.

Since NG is very impact sensitive, you could probably detonate it the kewl way simply by sticking a flashpowder salute to it.
That's what Mr. Nobel did succesfully in the 1860s, a confined blackpowder charge surrounded by NG.
Kind of an NPED... I think thats what you're after.

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[*] posted on 20-2-2012 at 09:40


Yeah, A fast flash salute will shoot NG most of the time. No MEKP or methyl nitrate needed. That's (even more) suicidal. A semi-effective NPED can be made with copper oxide/aluminum thermite and a pellet of ETN wrapped in a layer of foil at the bottom of the paper tube. Works maybe 2 outa' 3 times, IME.

[Edited on 20-2-2012 by Bot0nist]




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[*] posted on 20-2-2012 at 13:10


I know a guy that doesn't know what a flame sensitive explosive is. He uses flash from firecrackers to set off NG dynamite. He also says 100g flash sets off anfo :o Who thinks methyl nitrate should be in top 3 most dangerous nitric esters?
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[*] posted on 20-2-2012 at 13:38


Methyl Nitrate... Definitely!

You can set off pretty much all number 8 cap sensitive HE's with enough metal confined Flash. Even though flash has a low VoD it packs a ridiculous amount of power.
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