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Author: Subject: External Chemical Reactions
Substitutor
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[*] posted on 10-10-2018 at 10:10
External Chemical Reactions


Hi. How can I react something out of container (vessel)?

Specifically I am interested in dissolving something or at least part of it, but:

- without chemical losses such as dripping
(i can avoid evaporation by using high boiling point solvent)

- do it at maximum/reasonable/enough speed
(soaking something in solvent and attaching it to object would minimize dripping, but also minimize rate of reaction :()

- do it at/around room temperature

I am not even interested in dissolving whole object, but only surface of it, such as it's diameter at the bottom such as trunk of tree, bottom of bridge, pipe, building. I want to dissolve minimum amount of object, just enough to cause it's destruction or collapsing.

Do not worry, I am not terrorist or anarchist, just asking out of curiosity.
I can't see how spraying or soaking something would be solutions, as it would cause too much dripping or need to be present constantly.

I need something that can work automatic like at least overnight while i sleep.

This was only inspired by recent news where various bridges and large buildings collapsed and they say they do not know the cause. I did not get inspired to do it, but by it.

I mean even if not specifically for this, but just general question is how to do reactions out of containers, in open space. Without polluting air with smoke, fumes, fire, sound, dust, but using high boiling point solvent and maybe diverting dissolved material into something below place of reaction.

Even if not for specific purpose I think it would be cool, interesting, to affect something large, using something small, invisible, silent.

One more practical example would be to get constant supply of wood in small portions using automatic method overnight, instead of using that dangerous chainsaw where they say in manuals that even when you follow all rules it is still dangerous. :mad:

[Edited on 10-10-2018 by Substitutor]
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[*] posted on 10-10-2018 at 11:15


too many unrealistic expectations.
reacting something outside of a container is easy, but you mean dissolving something like the base of a concrete pillar by applying a thin layer of something, in the real world you can't dissolve 10kg (100 or 1000kg) with just a few hundreds grams of something sprayed over it, dissolving the base of a tree overnight to not use the dangerous chainsaw is even worse, you would probably need much more dangerous chemicals and not in the quantity you expect





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[*] posted on 10-10-2018 at 11:43


I mean like thread like salt bridge something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSBCbvJc3yk
But where solvent would cut material instead of pure pressure or heat.
But where chemical diffusion as in salt bridge is used to carry chemicals, including newly dissolved material.
Capillary action. Putting two small containers at both ends and refilling them daily.
I think chainsaw and most tools have too large width which is not minimal needed, and also don't allow automatization.
Of course speed up capillary action by changing various parameters to obtain good enough speed, maximum but without dripping.
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[*] posted on 10-10-2018 at 21:25


I have often wondered if there could be an infectious crystalline structure which could alter and destabilize the microstructure of hardened cement. Like tin pest, but concrete prion! :cool:



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[*] posted on 11-10-2018 at 02:46


Yeah, and like Ga attacks Al. But that is still not precise, possible huge losses, while my method would allow exact calculation and prediction based on distance or surface, and would dissolve minimum amount of material, like with laser.
Basically, I already know how to do this, already have image in mind. But only care about speed.
How to make extremely fast salt bridge or wick or capillary action? How to speed it up, but without causing dripping?
Here is my idea: do not use it in open space, but put it in kind of pipe or wire so that even if it drips, no chemical losses or environmental damage will be done. With such pipe around wick it is possible to use maximum rate of reaction.
But that is possible to be put only up to area where it would react, and not in that area.
Well maybe if wick or gauze is put only on area where it reacts it would make least mess, and allow maximum speed. The rest is connected with pipes or wires through which solvent and dissolved material would circulate.
Is it sure that dissolved material will come through wick to pipes?
I am imagining this actually like a highlighter which would have to have movable wick with help of small motor, to speed up dissolving, ion exchange.
I mean robbers would like to use this to steal money from bank and safe, without being noticed, even if it takes 100x more time than ordinary robbery.
Also I was inspired by yesterday's Paris police talking how they protect Eiffel Tower while holding weapons.
Hell, I doubt they could notice some small drone attaching strings/wires to bottom of it connecting them to nearby small containers of solvents and of course batteries. Just one example.
Of course it could be put into good use by allowing workers in middle of city to use silent although slower method without irritating nearby citizens or blocking streets. Also could be used by fbi/cia/police when spying terrorists or arresting them by surprise.
I always preferred chemistry over mechanics or electricity or physics or electronics, as everything can be solved smoothly.
Just my creativity, wild west ideas, inspiration :P
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[*] posted on 11-10-2018 at 03:26


Quote: Originally posted by Substitutor  
Yeah, and like Ga attacks Al. But that is still not precise, possible huge losses, while my method would allow exact calculation and prediction based on distance or surface, and would dissolve minimum amount of material, like with laser.
Basically, I already know how to do this, already have image in mind. But only care about speed.
How to make extremely fast salt bridge or wick or capillary action? How to speed it up, but without causing dripping?
Here is my idea: do not use it in open space, but put it in kind of pipe or wire so that even if it drips, no chemical losses or environmental damage will be done. With such pipe around wick it is possible to use maximum rate of reaction.
But that is possible to be put only up to area where it would react, and not in that area.
Well maybe if wick or gauze is put only on area where it reacts it would make least mess, and allow maximum speed. The rest is connected with pipes or wires through which solvent and dissolved material would circulate.
Is it sure that dissolved material will come through wick to pipes?
I am imagining this actually like a highlighter which would have to have movable wick with help of small motor, to speed up dissolving, ion exchange.
I mean robbers would like to use this to steal money from bank and safe, without being noticed, even if it takes 100x more time than ordinary robbery.
Also I was inspired by yesterday's Paris police talking how they protect Eiffel Tower while holding weapons.
Hell, I doubt they could notice some small drone attaching strings/wires to bottom of it connecting them to nearby small containers of solvents and of course batteries. Just one example.
Of course it could be put into good use by allowing workers in middle of city to use silent although slower method without irritating nearby citizens or blocking streets. Also could be used by fbi/cia/police when spying terrorists or arresting them by surprise.
I always preferred chemistry over mechanics or electricity or physics or electronics, as everything can be solved smoothly.
Just my creativity, wild west ideas, inspiration :P


as you said, wild west ideas, nothing feasible. "I already know how to do this" well you did not mention what chemical you want to use for what kind of surface.
the pillars of the genova bridge that collapsed were damaged because water reached the rebars of the reinforced concrete, rusting them, rust occupies more volume of the original steel, so it expands and cracks the concrete. now you want to do something like this right? let something reach the rebars to rust them and let them crack the concrete.

"Basically, I already know how to do this, already have image in mind. But only care about speed.
How to make extremely fast salt bridge or wick or capillary action?"

well you know that reinforced concrete is used also in salty water enviroments? (structures on the beach or on the water directly) and yes it corrodes but really slowly, like decades, and it is in full contact with the "corrosive solution" so your wick capillary idea doesn't work, you would need first to crack deep in the concrete, and if you need to do this you might as well destroy the pillar or structure with explosives or excavators.

"The rest is connected with pipes or wires through which solvent and dissolved material would circulate."
yousaid no containers right? apart from that,don't you see how useless is this idea? you need to drill holes, put pipes, recirculate corrosive solutions wait MONTHS OR YEARS! a bank robber would die of old age before reaching the bank safe with this method, and nope tubes, pumps, and stuff like that would be totally unseen from any security guards right?

"Hell, I doubt they could notice some small drone attaching strings/wires to bottom of it connecting them to nearby small containers of solvents and of course batteries. Just one example." yea sure a really viable option, we could even use midgets with camo suits and small picaxes


"I always preferred chemistry over mechanics or electricity or physics or electronics, as everything can be solved smoothly."
hitting a wall with a mallet is way faster and easier than putting corrosive solutions with batteries, pumps, tubes, and years of waiting.

sorry man, but speed is the exact problem why nothing of what you said makes sense. there is a reason if in hundreds of years nobody decided to use acid to cut down a tree, or to use salty water to demolish a building





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[*] posted on 11-10-2018 at 03:43


You know which chemical, for example acids for metals, and bases for concrete, just see what is soluble in what. SiO2 is soluble in NaOH, CaSO4 is soluble in H2SO4, Fe is soluble in H2SO4...

Mallet is heavy, even just to lift, I already start suffering when I lift it. And everybody would hear if not even see. And metals are not breakable. Don't you think banks are not already protected against mainstream methods? Hell, you can't even break some glasses or concretes if they are hard or large enough.

Concrete used in sea can't be compared to this, it is not soluble in it, except maybe slightly.

I don't need to drill any holes and won't have difficulty attaching dissolver to object, but just use magnetic in case of metal, and pressure attachment in case of nonmetals.

I did not say no containers, well maybe not on object, but yes far from object, connected via wires/pipes.

These wires/pipes could be made extremely small multiple like strings so they can be attached one by one, or few by few, instead of lifting one large pipe. They could be so wide and thin like some strips of foils and colored the same color as object to be dissolved, so to be unnoticed.

And I plan to do this at night, no visibility.

And I doubt that speed is issue if i circulate solution to wick at maximum speed. Hell, if you wanna talk about speeds, at least show some calculation why it is slow, or has somebody already done this.

Advantage of this method is that nobody expects it and all security measures are like outdated. Like antivirus when it has no virus definitions in database, because virus is new. :cool:
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[*] posted on 11-10-2018 at 06:03


so you can't lift a mallet but a barrel of acid/base/solvent plus pipes, motors, pumps and batteries no problem?




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[*] posted on 11-10-2018 at 06:34


Yet another PhD Chemist incarnation- goodbye



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