Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  
Author: Subject: HNO3..
vlassen
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 14-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 14-3-2011 at 14:05
HNO3..


Hello,

I just found this way of making nitric acid..

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=48&t...

It looks like this

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=401

this method (1st link) seems to work quite well (and cheap)...

What do you think?



[Edited on 14-3-2011 by vlassen]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
ScienceHideout
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 391
Registered: 12-3-2011
Location: In the Source
Member Is Offline

Mood: High Spin

[*] posted on 14-3-2011 at 17:05


Quote: Originally posted by vlassen  
Hello,

I just found this way of making nitric acid..

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=48&t...

It looks like this

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=401

this method (1st link) seems to work quite well (and cheap)...

What do you think?



[Edited on 14-3-2011 by vlassen]


I have my own way of making HNO3. I adapted it from the 2nd part og the following NurdRage video. Even though it is not pure or concentrated, it works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yE7v4wkuZU




hey, if you are reading this, I can't U2U, but you are always welcome to send me an email!


View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
vlassen
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 14-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 15-3-2011 at 06:26


I tried this method and the yield was low IMO. Do you get a good yield with your process?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
ScienceHideout
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 391
Registered: 12-3-2011
Location: In the Source
Member Is Offline

Mood: High Spin

[*] posted on 15-3-2011 at 11:41


Quote: Originally posted by vlassen  
I tried this method and the yield was low IMO. Do you get a good yield with your process?


I use peroxide like nurdrage, and I use lots of copper and heat it. I never titrated it, but as long as it eats copper it can serve most of my purposes.




hey, if you are reading this, I can't U2U, but you are always welcome to send me an email!


View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Formatik
National Hazard
****




Posts: 927
Registered: 25-3-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: equilibrium

[*] posted on 15-3-2011 at 17:43


Quote: Originally posted by vlassen  
...
What do you think?


It would be very impure. Despite that silver treatment, and though Ag2SO4 has slight solubility it is much more soluble than AgCl. Also, Ag2SO4 has increased solubility in acids, HNO3 enhances solubility. This can become a lethally problematic impurity if the acid was mixed with organics, and a detonating silver compound forms. The acid will also have some sodium contamination. Distillation is needed.

Another way to make it from NaHSO4 is by heating. NaHSO4 heated with KNO3 will drive off some nitric acid, or CuSO4.5H2O mixed KNO3 at modestly low heat (65 to 235 C) drive off HNO3 and NO2. The vapors can be captured in cool H2O (better is moderate H2O2 since it oxidizes nitrogen oxides). But I would always use H2SO4 and do the regular distillation. Besides good for sheer experimentation, I don't like roundabout methods.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
plante1999
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1936
Registered: 27-12-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mad as a hatter

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 03:29


you should chec the way i use , it is a the end of the page (yellow picture).

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=15211




I never asked for this.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
vlassen
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 14-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 08:07


ScienceHideout, Formatik: Thank you for your help

plante1999: you say in your topic that you got ammonium nitrate from instant cold pack.. How? (In 2009, it was banned along with nitric acid, some nitrates/chlorates etc. I guess you know the "Explosive Act"..)

[Edited on 16-3-2011 by vlassen]

[Edited on 16-3-2011 by vlassen]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
hissingnoise
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline

Mood: Pulverulescent!

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 09:14


Quote: Originally posted by Formatik  
Besides good for sheer experimentation, I don't like roundabout methods.

And since said roundabouts produce nothing worth the effort they're mostly just a waste of time!

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bot0nist
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1559
Registered: 15-2-2011
Location: Right behind you.
Member Is Offline

Mood: Streching my cotyledons.

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 10:25


Quote: Originally posted by vlassen  
ScienceHideout, Formatik:

plante1999: you say in your topic that you got ammonium nitrate from instant cold pack.. How? (In 2009, it was banned along with nitric acid, some nitrates/chlorates etc.



I still get it in cold packs in the USA. Just bought some last Friday. Ingredients: Ammonium nitrate and water. Some have urea in them instead though. You have to watch out for that.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
vlassen
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 14-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 12:21


Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist  
Quote: Originally posted by vlassen  
ScienceHideout, Formatik:

plante1999: you say in your topic that you got ammonium nitrate from instant cold pack.. How? (In 2009, it was banned along with nitric acid, some nitrates/chlorates etc.



I still get it in cold packs in the USA. Just bought some last Friday. Ingredients: Ammonium nitrate and water. Some have urea in them instead though. You have to watch out for that.


But what about Canada? Especially Quebec.. That's what I can get there

http://www.formedica.com/en-ca/produits/premiers-soins/gel-p...

but it doesn't say anything about ingredients..

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bot0nist
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1559
Registered: 15-2-2011
Location: Right behind you.
Member Is Offline

Mood: Streching my cotyledons.

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 12:37


I'm not sure about Canada. If the product is a 'gel' like it says then I doubt it would be useful. The ones I use are just a white bag filled with little beads (prills?) of NH<sub>4</sub>NO<sub>3</sub> and a little brittle bag of water inside. The ingredients state only dihydrogen monoxide and ammonium nitrate. The NH<sub>4</sub>NO<sub>3</sub> prills are very hygroscopic, so I pulverize them with a rolling pin, and then heat it between paper towels at 110F in the oven for 20 minutes. I then seal immediately in a water tight container.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
vlassen
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 14-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 12:55


It's not a gel, it's exactly like your white bag (white beads and a bag of water). But, I fear that it might be urea.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bot0nist
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1559
Registered: 15-2-2011
Location: Right behind you.
Member Is Offline

Mood: Streching my cotyledons.

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 13:08


Some simple tests could determine if its urea I imagine. Is it pure white? Does it smell of ammonia when heated?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
plante1999
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1936
Registered: 27-12-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mad as a hatter

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 13:16


in live in qc and you could get easily ammonium nitrate cold pack



I never asked for this.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
vlassen
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 14-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 13:46


Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist  
Some simple tests could determine if its urea I imagine. Is it pure white? Does it smell of ammonia when heated?


Yeah it's white.. I have never heated it, but it stinks anyway*. I'll try to determine the solubility, I think it might be a good way to determine if it's ammonium nitrate or urea (or anything else)

*In fact, I think the smell comes from the bottle..

plante1999: which brand?

[Edited on 16-3-2011 by vlassen]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
cyanureeves
National Hazard
****




Posts: 744
Registered: 29-8-2010
Location: Mars
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 14:07


urea also smell of ammonia.walmart has a prilled cold pack that says non-toxic and its urea.50/50 prills and baking soda boiled should get you sodium nitrate,you can then evaporate and mix with sugar(a la nurd rage)and burn it or just make gun powder if its ammonium nitrate prills. i got an oldie cold pack and the water pack has a green liquid and the powder looks like baking soda.never seen this before.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
vlassen
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 14-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 14:32


So if I mix a solution of ammonium nitrate and sodium bicarbonate it should make bubbles.. I'll try that
View user's profile View All Posts By User
vlassen
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 14-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 15:03


It didn't work, I didn't see any bubbles.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bot0nist
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1559
Registered: 15-2-2011
Location: Right behind you.
Member Is Offline

Mood: Streching my cotyledons.

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 15:14


I meant the Urea smells like HN<sub>4</sub> not the AN. I don't know if the 'bubble' test will work. Its not an acid. Does the metathesis create CO<sub>2</sub> or something?

If it smells like HN<sub>4</sub> its urea IIRC.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
vlassen
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 14-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 15:36


Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist  
I meant the Urea smells like HN<sub>4</sub> not the AN. I don't know if the 'bubble' test will work. Its not an acid. Does the metathesis create CO<sub>2</sub> or something?

If it smells like HN<sub>4</sub> its urea IIRC.


It's not an acid, but:

NH4NO3 + NaHCO3 -> NH3 + CO2 + H2O + NaNO3
View user's profile View All Posts By User
bbartlog
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1139
Registered: 27-8-2009
Location: Unmoored in time
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 17:07


Why wouldn't you get ammonium bicarbonate if this reaction were conducted at room temperature, i.e.
NH4NO3 + NaHCO3 -> NH4HCO3 + NaNO3 ?
Granted ammonium bicarbonate is itself pretty unstable and would easily decompose (even if it formed) to the products you list, but I'm not sure it just happens right away.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
cyanureeves
National Hazard
****




Posts: 744
Registered: 29-8-2010
Location: Mars
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 17:45


bubbles? you mean because baking soda fizzes in water?i never paid no mind to the bubbling, but ammonium nitrate and sodium bicarbonate make a bunch of ammonia when boiling. take advantage of the ammonia.just dry your yield and add sugar then burn it.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
vlassen
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 14-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 17:55


bbartlog: what do you mean? If 2 gases and water are produced, then I think it's spontaneous

cyanureeves: well I thought that if it produces NH3 (gas), then I would see bubbles or something like that o.0.. I'll try to boil it then.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Formatik
National Hazard
****




Posts: 927
Registered: 25-3-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: equilibrium

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 18:39


Urea boiled with bicarbonate will also form NH3. I would mix conc. aq. NaOH with the suspected NH4+ salt, if it gives off NH3 at room temperature, then it's NH4+.

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
And since said roundabouts produce nothing worth the effort they're mostly just a waste of time!


Mostly true. But reagents may be harder to get in some areas, and increased restrictions can make one or the other harder to obtain. The versatility is good.

[Edited on 17-3-2011 by Formatik]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bot0nist
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1559
Registered: 15-2-2011
Location: Right behind you.
Member Is Offline

Mood: Streching my cotyledons.

[*] posted on 16-3-2011 at 18:41


Now there's an idea...

Still, this will only tell you if it contians an NH<sub>4</sub>_, not if its contaminated with urea i suppose.

[Edited on 17-3-2011 by Bot0nist]

[Edited on 17-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  

  Go To Top