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Author: Subject: Analytical Chem before Physical Chem?
smaerd
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[*] posted on 8-11-2012 at 17:46
Analytical Chem before Physical Chem?


For a requirement to take physical chemistry it says that I need to take analytical chemistry. I've skimmed through the Atkins eighth edition on a number of occasions and I'm not really sure why that would be. Do you think it would be a bad idea to take physical chemistry while taking analytical chemistry at the same time?



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Ephesian
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[*] posted on 8-11-2012 at 17:59


I took Physical Chemistry, Inorganic Chemistry, Advanced Organic Chemistry, Seminar, and Linear Algebra at the same time. In addition did research. you can handle those two together.
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arsphenamine
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[*] posted on 9-11-2012 at 08:11


I would recommend AChem prior to PChem since it firmly instills practices for preparation and consistent attention to detail.

Similarly, linear algebra is good preparation for Quantum Chemistry if you join the dark (cough!) er...computational side.
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Dr.Bob
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[*] posted on 9-11-2012 at 10:34


I took Analytical and P-Chem at the same time, no problem here. There is no amount of preparation that will make P-Chem any easier. Either you understand it or not, for most people, not... I did usually find that after the tests, I sometimes would have things makes sense, but not until a while later, and I had already done poorly on the tests, usually abotu a 30, but at least that was a "C" when I took p-Chem.
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smaerd
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[*] posted on 9-11-2012 at 12:10


I really appreciate the advice. I think I will ask a professor first to see if I can, if not take Analytical first and follow the reccomended order. I will be taking linear algebra next semester which I'm kind of bumming about because I am loving differential equations and the two don't appear to be similar at all. Maybe take a partial differential equations class out of pure mental masochism and to satisfy the equation solving itch. Not going computational lol, I love experimental chemistry way too much to be behind a screen.

[Edited on 9-11-2012 by smaerd]




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tetrahedron
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[*] posted on 9-11-2012 at 13:37


Quote: Originally posted by smaerd  
I will be taking linear algebra next semester which I'm kind of bumming about because I am loving differential equations and the two don't appear to be similar at all.

the main relationship is that linear differential equations can be described as 'functions' in linear algebra; thus some abstract results from linear algebra can be used to find solutions of differential equations and express them in simple ways.
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smaerd
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[*] posted on 9-11-2012 at 15:37


I did notice that with the method of undetermined coefficients and a few other techniques for solving ordinary differential equations. Handling the algebra seems key when it comes to higher math. Definitely needed for physical chemistry as well.



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watson.fawkes
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[*] posted on 9-11-2012 at 17:12


Quote: Originally posted by smaerd  
I will be taking linear algebra next semester which I'm kind of bumming about
Linear algebra is perhaps the most single most unappreciated area of mathematics by non-mathematicians. Linear algebra is truly ubiquitous in mathematics, in each of its three great branches of analysis, geometry, and algebra. In scope, it's more important even than calculus. Personally, I'd teach linear algebra before calculus, since it greatly clarifies the real nature of the derivative as the best-linear-approximation of a function at a point, a perspective that makes derivatives of, say, multi-dimensional functions far more comprehensible.
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smaerd
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[*] posted on 9-11-2012 at 17:19


well that makes me feel a lot better about learning it :).



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arsphenamine
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[*] posted on 9-11-2012 at 20:39


Quote: Originally posted by watson.fawkes  
Personally, I'd teach linear algebra before calculus, since ...
...with reasonable practice, it is very efficient notation.

The phrase "suffering like a Hessian" refers not only to the US revolutionary war,
but to manually working out determinants for large square matrices.
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[*] posted on 15-11-2012 at 16:32


When I remember my first year at a typical german university, we had inorganic chemistry 1 and 2 (1 being the what the mortimer says, 2 being ions in solution), organic chemistry 1 and 2 (the complete vollhardt/schore), physical chemistry 1 and 2 (the atkins), analytical chemistry 1 (identification of all cations and anions and separation of cationic mixtures), analytical chemistry 2 (instrumental analytics), maths, physics .... and all this combined with labs in :
inorganic chemistry
analytical chemistry
physical chemistry
physics

There was no choice in what to take when. If you didnĀ“t succeed in one course you were not allowed to take the according lab course, which basically sucked, since that was the most fun part.
Later on, off course you could specialise and you were free to take organic chemistry 8 in favour of theoretical chemistry 2....


So, yes why not take those two courses at the same time?
Didactically they are not connected and with a good understanding of your prior inorganic chemistry course, you can go ahead taking analytics.
And once you understand that the atkins is not just a textbook but a classic novel about yorself understanding the world arround you, you will love physical chemistry too :-)



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Mildronate
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[*] posted on 26-11-2012 at 03:53


Actualy for physical you need only general chemistry and math. I had in same time Analitycal chemistry II and Physical chemistry I in university, blah blah dP/dt if const V that was so faking boring and all that diferential equations. Read Atkins and get drunk from reading. You guys had so much math in university? I had one semester Math I and one semester Math II?
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