Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: is the "Fear" toxin rumor true
chemprodder
Harmless
*




Posts: 6
Registered: 23-10-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-10-2005 at 20:56
is the "Fear" toxin rumor true


I recently saw batman begins(great movie i might add) i noticed that one of the bad guys "scarecorw" used a toxic agent(a mist or dust i dont know what) that caused hallucinations as well as panic/fear attacks and peoples phobias come alive.
Now i remember reading somewhare that supposidly the CIA was using agents that caused massive panic and fear.
Is this true?

they said it used LSD derivitives....
i know LSD causes hallucinations, but not neccisarly grotesque ones. Exactly what chemicals or chemical combinations would induce such a state?
or is this kind of drug simply a myth?

i would like to know any info at all i am greatly intruiged by this subject.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
stygian
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 242
Registered: 19-9-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 24-10-2005 at 05:31


That CIA chemical would be BZ. Can't remember the exact chemical name but I think it's an anticholinergic (not positive) that has effects for several weeks and is very potent.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Blind Angel
National Hazard
****




Posts: 845
Registered: 24-11-2002
Location: Québec
Member Is Offline

Mood: Meh!

[*] posted on 24-10-2005 at 10:03


http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/bz/bz.shtml

Mostly all anti-choligernic have chance to induce fear, not always though.




/}/_//|//) /-\\/|//¬/=/_
My PGP Key Fingerprint: D4EA A609 55E4 7ADD 8529 359D D6E2 33F6 4C76 78ED
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
MadHatter
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1338
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Maine
Member Is Offline

Mood: Enjoying retirement

[*] posted on 25-10-2005 at 08:04
Drugs


60 Minutes did a segment many years ago on soldiers who volunteered to be
test subjects for drugs. IIRC, it was the U.S. Army that did the tests. The segment
included interviews of the volunteers and military footage of the reactions they had.
The drugs tested were LSD and BZ. The guys on acid looked like they were having
a good time. The ones on BZ appeared to be totally withdrawn from the world -
almost non-responsive.




From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
View user's profile View All Posts By User
chemprodder
Harmless
*




Posts: 6
Registered: 23-10-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 27-10-2005 at 14:47
other toxins


how bout adrenal cortical/ secretions brain makes when under panic?...i also heard of a chem callled DPT...that made stong bad hallucinations so intense the user thought he or she was in hell?!
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Blind Angel
National Hazard
****




Posts: 845
Registered: 24-11-2002
Location: Québec
Member Is Offline

Mood: Meh!

[*] posted on 27-10-2005 at 18:29


DPT, diisopropyltryptamine is an hallucinogène in the same class of DMT (which is stronger), DET, LSD and all other tryptamine, for reference on the subject please look at Tihkal (free on erowid)

As for brain chemistry, it's mostly, i think, a cocktail of chemical more than one precise (adrenaline being certainly one of the most produced) so there is no real answer. Emotion control is something that scientist only start fidgetting with, it's way more complex than you might think.




/}/_//|//) /-\\/|//¬/=/_
My PGP Key Fingerprint: D4EA A609 55E4 7ADD 8529 359D D6E2 33F6 4C76 78ED
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
sparkgap
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1234
Registered: 16-1-2005
Location: not where you think
Member Is Offline

Mood: chaotropic

[*] posted on 28-10-2005 at 02:38


I wouldn't consider anticholinergics as "fear inducing chemicals", so to speak (this was tackled in an earlier thread in "Biochemistry";).

Although, the symptoms of intoxication with atropine and ilk (dilated pupils, sweating, etc.) *might* be construed as an experience of fear.

sparky (~_~)




"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
View user's profile View All Posts By User
chemprodder
Harmless
*




Posts: 6
Registered: 23-10-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 30-10-2005 at 17:20
what about in-direct panic?


Well yes i do see the point that the actual human emotion is very hard to contolll by tech means......But what about this:

A) any hallucinagen that produces more of grimmer hallucinations rather than pretty patterns(more like a "ightmare on elm street" trip)
b) or how bout a chemical that produces more of a physical panic rather than a emotional state?( like a sinister MDMA?) perhaps causes high bloodpressure and disorentation?
...
panic(not fear) is truly based on the perception of our physical senses then i am sure there can be a chemical way to provide that.....as Brry rothman stated " if it exists in the world of humanity then there can also be a synthetic way to re-create it...."
View user's profile View All Posts By User
guy
National Hazard
****




Posts: 982
Registered: 14-4-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Catalytic!

[*] posted on 28-11-2005 at 00:26


Datura plants (thorn apples, angel's trumpets) contain the highly toxic anticholinergic alkaloids hyoscyamine, scopolamine, and atropine. They are cause strong hallucinations. For more information, see this site.



View user's profile View All Posts By User
DDTea
National Hazard
****




Posts: 940
Registered: 25-2-2003
Location: Freedomland
Member Is Offline

Mood: Degenerate

[*] posted on 25-12-2005 at 16:54


I'm also going to jump on the anticholinergic deliriant boat regarding what type of chemical could cause those symptoms.

The wobbly vision and demonic hallucinations in Batman Begins reminded me a lot of (dare I say it..) overdosing on dramamine. I imagine absorption and the onset of symptoms would be a lot faster if inhaled, as this is usually the case with alkaloids.

There are so many plants that contain anticholinergics; Belladonna, Jimson Weed (Datura Inoxia), and Henbane are the more common ones, and have earned nicknames like "Devil's Cherry" and "Devil's Weed." But in Batman Begins, they said the guy "purified and weaponized" the active ingredient from the plant. To me, that sounds like BZ.

One of the big things about deliriants is that they don't disable the basic, physical functions of a man; at lower doses, they only target higher functions--coherent thought, speech, coordination. When it comes to people's reactions...if they don't know they've been drugged, they're going to react to what they see as they normally would. The typical example is you touch your computer mouse and you realize that you just set your hand on a 1 foot spider. Of course it makes absolutely no sense to a normal person, but then to a person with disorganized thought...

The interesting thing about anticholinergic hallucinations, though, is that the really wild stuff happens in the dark; that is, you can disintegrate the aforementioned 1 foot spider with a flashlight. :P

If only they were better regarded by the druggy community...we could get some interesting studies going.




"In the end the proud scientist or philosopher who cannot be bothered to make his thought accessible has no choice but to retire to the heights in which dwell the Great Misunderstood and the Great Ignored, there to rail in Olympic superiority at the folly of mankind." - Reginald Kapp.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
goblin
Harmless
*




Posts: 30
Registered: 17-7-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 10-1-2006 at 08:40
Binary system


While there may be no toxin in itsself that would produce fear, how about a combo. While LSD or BZ wont produce panic of fear all the time i belive if you stimulate fear like symptoms within a person the mind may gear the hallucinations down the more grim path:

example: BZ-produces hallucinations+Amyl Nitrate-produces rapid pulse+belladonna or amphetamine-panic like state....all these combonations would trigger what you consider to be fear.
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top