Admagistr
Hazard to Others
Posts: 361
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: The dreaming alchemist
|
|
Al2(MoO4)3+Al,thermite mixture!
I'm sending a video I made about a year ago, capturing my idea and my efforts to create a ruby melt from Al2(MoO4)3+Cr2O3+Al, in a chamotte crucible.
The ruby melt was indeed formed, even sprayed into the surrounding area in response, but it is heavily contaminated with molybdenum, which has not
melted and separate from it, unfortunately. I have it confirmed by X-ray analysis. I mean, a lot of MoO3 was squeezing out, as you can see in the
video...I recommend you watch the video in full size;-).But I really enjoyed the pyrotechnic effect...
I posted the video on a profile of a friend of mine who's an astrophysicist. His name is Stanislav Hledík. It was back when I didn't have my own
YouTube account. The video is still unofficial, in a working version, and will only be translated into English later. But there are important
equations in his description, describing the reaction that everyone here at the forum understands;-)...Note how long the mixture burns and stays
hot...I invented this mixture myself:-)
https://youtu.be/lEosDA7nSRg
[Edited on 21-11-2021 by Admagistr]
[Edited on 21-11-2021 by Admagistr]
[Edited on 21-11-2021 by Admagistr]
[Edited on 21-11-2021 by Admagistr]
|
|
|
MineMan
International Hazard
Posts: 1004
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
So what would this do. I am a bit confused.
|
|
|
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
Posts: 361
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: The dreaming alchemist
|
|
I was going to send the post to the topic of exotic thermites, but I sent it off by mistake as a new topic, it was read by many people in a short
time, so I left it at that. What's interesting about that reaction, for example, is that there's a very exothermic reaction here by reducing the
aluminium compound with aluminium. That the mixture cools and burns slowly for a very long time. Even the massive sublimation of MoO3 from the
mixture...
|
|
|
MineMan
International Hazard
Posts: 1004
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Where do you get the Al2Mo43?
|
|
|
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
Posts: 361
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: The dreaming alchemist
|
|
I bought it, Al2(MoO4)3 from Chemcraft, but I think it can be fully replaced by a mixture of perfectly blended Al2O3 and MoO3 in different
proportions.
|
|
|
MineMan
International Hazard
Posts: 1004
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr  |
I bought it, Al2(MoO4)3 from Chemcraft, but I think it can be fully replaced by a mixture of perfectly blended Al2O3 and MoO3 in different
proportions. |
I don’t think it can, Al2O3 cannot oxidize Al…
|
|
|
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
Posts: 361
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: The dreaming alchemist
|
|
Yes, you're absolutely right, Al2O3 can't be reduced by aluminium, Al2O3, which is formed by the thermal decomposition of Al2(MoO4)3 in this reaction
serves to slow down the reaction. Pure MoO3 would react too violently and quickly with aluminum, and there would be some type of explosion, or
explosive combustion...
|
|
|
MineMan
International Hazard
Posts: 1004
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Oh cool. Though how is it slower… it has both in the same molecule?
|
|
|
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
Posts: 361
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: The dreaming alchemist
|
|
The molecule Al2(MoO4)3 can also be written as follows: Al2O3.3MoO3, so both of these oxides form one molecule of aluminium
molybdate.
You can add different amounts of Al2O3 to a mixture of MoO3 and aluminium, in a stoichiometric ratio, and control the reaction. It's great to be able
to control the violence of a reaction and control its speed! The more Al2O3 you add, the slower and less explosive the reaction will be.
|
|
|
MineMan
International Hazard
Posts: 1004
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Ahh. I see 
|
|
|
Herr Haber
International Hazard
Posts: 1236
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
You tamed the reaction quite well !
That's not the reaction speed I'm used to see
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
|
|
|
MineMan
International Hazard
Posts: 1004
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | I'm sending a video I made about a year ago, capturing my idea and my efforts to create a ruby melt from Al2(MoO4)3+Cr2O3+Al, in a chamotte crucible.
The ruby melt was indeed formed, even sprayed into the surrounding area in response, but it is heavily contaminated with molybdenum, which has not
melted and separate from it, unfortunately. I have it confirmed by X-ray analysis. I mean, a lot of MoO3 was squeezing out, as you can see in the
video...I recommend you watch the video in full size;-).But I really enjoyed the pyrotechnic effect...
I posted the video on a profile of a friend of mine who's an astrophysicist. His name is Stanislav Hledík. It was back when I didn't have my own
YouTube account. The video is still unofficial, in a working version, and will only be translated into English later. But there are important
equations in his description, describing the reaction that everyone here at the forum understands;-)...Note how long the mixture burns and stays
hot...I invented this mixture myself:-)
https://youtu.be/lEosDA7nSRg
[Edited on 21-11-2021 by Admagistr]
[Edited on 21-11-2021 by Admagistr]
[Edited on 21-11-2021 by Admagistr]
[Edited on 21-11-2021 by Admagistr] |
What do you use the ruby melt for?
|
|
|
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
Posts: 361
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: The dreaming alchemist
|
|
What do you use the ruby melt for?[/rquote]
I wanted to make a ruby melt with the hope that in some parts there would be nice little rubies, preferably crystalline I collect gemstones and minerals, so for this reason. It was my very first experiment
with this reaction and I have a lot of ideas and other plans with this...The problem was that the metal molybdenum didn't melt and separate from the
Al2O3, but it mixed perfectly with the ruby melt, so the melt is very ugly, somewhere I should have pictures, I'll try to look at them, so you have an
idea of what it looked like. I thought of using a centrifuge during the reaction, another idea is to use KAl(MoO4)2, instead of Al2(MoO4)3, to
insulate the crucible well so that it cools very slowly and the molybdenum separates from the oxide. I also wish to cover the cup with a lid with a
small opening, so that the considerable part of MoO3, formed by the thermal decomposition of the aluminium molybdate not leave reaction mixture early,
that might help... Otherwise, MoO3 is a great mineralizer to make rubies and corundum in general. You have an idea too, any idea is welcome...
|
|
|
MineMan
International Hazard
Posts: 1004
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | What do you use the ruby melt for?[/rquote]
I wanted to make a ruby melt with the hope that in some parts there would be nice little rubies, preferably crystalline I collect gemstones and minerals, so for this reason. It was my very first experiment
with this reaction and I have a lot of ideas and other plans with this...The problem was that the metal molybdenum didn't melt and separate from the
Al2O3, but it mixed perfectly with the ruby melt, so the melt is very ugly, somewhere I should have pictures, I'll try to look at them, so you have an
idea of what it looked like. I thought of using a centrifuge during the reaction, another idea is to use KAl(MoO4)2, instead of Al2(MoO4)3, to
insulate the crucible well so that it cools very slowly and the molybdenum separates from the oxide. I also wish to cover the cup with a lid with a
small opening, so that the considerable part of MoO3, formed by the thermal decomposition of the aluminium molybdate not leave reaction mixture early,
that might help... Otherwise, MoO3 is a great mineralizer to make rubies and corundum in general. You have an idea too, any idea is welcome...
|
MoO3 has an insane melting temperature. Starting with Al2O3, no chance of melting! Can you just use MoO3, and Al? I would put the mix over hot coals
and have it heat up too 1000c, the whole mixture before igniting… you will need a sting container however.
Could you add 10-30 percent Be for higher heat?!
|
|
|
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
Posts: 361
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: The dreaming alchemist
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by MineMan | | Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | What do you use the ruby melt for?[/rquote]
I wanted to make a ruby melt with the hope that in some parts there would be nice little rubies, preferably crystalline I collect gemstones and minerals, so for this reason. It was my very first experiment
with this reaction and I have a lot of ideas and other plans with this...The problem was that the metal molybdenum didn't melt and separate from the
Al2O3, but it mixed perfectly with the ruby melt, so the melt is very ugly, somewhere I should have pictures, I'll try to look at them, so you have an
idea of what it looked like. I thought of using a centrifuge during the reaction, another idea is to use KAl(MoO4)2, instead of Al2(MoO4)3, to
insulate the crucible well so that it cools very slowly and the molybdenum separates from the oxide. I also wish to cover the cup with a lid with a
small opening, so that the considerable part of MoO3, formed by the thermal decomposition of the aluminium molybdate not leave reaction mixture early,
that might help... Otherwise, MoO3 is a great mineralizer to make rubies and corundum in general. You have an idea too, any idea is welcome...
|
MoO3 has an insane melting temperature. Starting with Al2O3, no chance of melting! Can you just use MoO3, and Al? I would put the mix over hot coals
and have it heat up too 1000c, the whole mixture before igniting… you will need a sting container however.
Could you add 10-30 percent Be for higher heat?! |
MoO3 has a medium-high melting temperature in my memory of around 800 C, and at this temperature, when it's mixed with Al2O3, it also melts that
oxide, by creating aluminium molybdate. I tried it and it was enough for an oven that produces a maximum temperature of 1,000 C. I lit the mixture in
the video with a regular little sparkle, you can see that at the beginning of the video, the burning of the sparkle, I wish I'd forgotten to write it
down...Well, I'm sure it could be done on that coal, too, but when the sparkle is enough, I chose the easiest course of action. I love your idea for
the Be. If we used aluminium molybdate and Be powder, there could also be chrysoberyl, with a touch of Cr2O3 that changes colors, looks emerald by day
and artificial light by night, like amethyst(violet red)! You could use Al powder with Be powder, or Be powder itself. Your idea is cool! It just kind
of spoils my joy, the considerable toxicity of the beryllium powder...Be powder is much better for pyrotechnic applications than aluminium, but its
spread and use are prevented by the bad combination of high price and toxicity. I'm sure our discussion will interest our colleague Vano! He's doing
experiments with BeO...
Have you ever tried any mixture with Be powder? I think anyone who's into energy materials and pyro applications and is really serious about it should
try it at least once...Under strictly security condition, that's the beauty flaw...
|
|
|
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
Posts: 361
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: The dreaming alchemist
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by MineMan | | Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | What do you use the ruby melt for?[/rquote]
I wanted to make a ruby melt with the hope that in some parts there would be nice little rubies, preferably crystalline I collect gemstones and minerals, so for this reason. It was my very first experiment
with this reaction and I have a lot of ideas and other plans with this...The problem was that the metal molybdenum didn't melt and separate from the
Al2O3, but it mixed perfectly with the ruby melt, so the melt is very ugly, somewhere I should have pictures, I'll try to look at them, so you have an
idea of what it looked like. I thought of using a centrifuge during the reaction, another idea is to use KAl(MoO4)2, instead of Al2(MoO4)3, to
insulate the crucible well so that it cools very slowly and the molybdenum separates from the oxide. I also wish to cover the cup with a lid with a
small opening, so that the considerable part of MoO3, formed by the thermal decomposition of the aluminium molybdate not leave reaction mixture early,
that might help... Otherwise, MoO3 is a great mineralizer to make rubies and corundum in general. You have an idea too, any idea is welcome...
|
MoO3 has an insane melting temperature. Starting with Al2O3, no chance of melting! Can you just use MoO3, and Al? I would put the mix over hot coals
and have it heat up too 1000c, the whole mixture before igniting… you will need a sting container however.
Could you add 10-30 percent Be for higher heat?! |
Al alone with MoO3 leads to rapid vaporization of MoO3 and the reaction is a slow explosion, explosive combustion. But I'll give it a try and add just
a tiny amount of Al2O3!
|
|
|
MineMan
International Hazard
Posts: 1004
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | | Quote: Originally posted by MineMan | | Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | What do you use the ruby melt for?[/rquote]
I wanted to make a ruby melt with the hope that in some parts there would be nice little rubies, preferably crystalline I collect gemstones and minerals, so for this reason. It was my very first experiment
with this reaction and I have a lot of ideas and other plans with this...The problem was that the metal molybdenum didn't melt and separate from the
Al2O3, but it mixed perfectly with the ruby melt, so the melt is very ugly, somewhere I should have pictures, I'll try to look at them, so you have an
idea of what it looked like. I thought of using a centrifuge during the reaction, another idea is to use KAl(MoO4)2, instead of Al2(MoO4)3, to
insulate the crucible well so that it cools very slowly and the molybdenum separates from the oxide. I also wish to cover the cup with a lid with a
small opening, so that the considerable part of MoO3, formed by the thermal decomposition of the aluminium molybdate not leave reaction mixture early,
that might help... Otherwise, MoO3 is a great mineralizer to make rubies and corundum in general. You have an idea too, any idea is welcome...
|
MoO3 has an insane melting temperature. Starting with Al2O3, no chance of melting! Can you just use MoO3, and Al? I would put the mix over hot coals
and have it heat up too 1000c, the whole mixture before igniting… you will need a sting container however.
Could you add 10-30 percent Be for higher heat?! |
MoO3 has a medium-high melting temperature in my memory of around 800 C, and at this temperature, when it's mixed with Al2O3, it also melts that
oxide, by creating aluminium molybdate. I tried it and it was enough for an oven that produces a maximum temperature of 1,000 C. I lit the mixture in
the video with a regular little sparkle, you can see that at the beginning of the video, the burning of the sparkle, I wish I'd forgotten to write it
down...Well, I'm sure it could be done on that coal, too, but when the sparkle is enough, I chose the easiest course of action. I love your idea for
the Be. If we used aluminium molybdate and Be powder, there could also be chrysoberyl, with a touch of Cr2O3 that changes colors, looks emerald by day
and artificial light by night, like amethyst(violet red)! You could use Al powder with Be powder, or Be powder itself. Your idea is cool! It just kind
of spoils my joy, the considerable toxicity of the beryllium powder...Be powder is much better for pyrotechnic applications than aluminium, but its
spread and use are prevented by the bad combination of high price and toxicity. I'm sure our discussion will interest our colleague Vano! He's doing
experiments with BeO...
Have you ever tried any mixture with Be powder? I think anyone who's into energy materials and pyro applications and is really serious about it should
try it at least once...Under strictly security condition, that's the beauty flaw... |
I meant Mo, that melting temp! Very high
Who is doing experiments with Be? I haven’t. I don’t feel confident using it. Could it be safer using beryllium carbide or beryllium bonded with
an inter metallic compound?? You need higher heat to melt the Mo
|
|
|
MineMan
International Hazard
Posts: 1004
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | | Quote: Originally posted by MineMan | | Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | What do you use the ruby melt for?[/rquote]
I wanted to make a ruby melt with the hope that in some parts there would be nice little rubies, preferably crystalline I collect gemstones and minerals, so for this reason. It was my very first experiment
with this reaction and I have a lot of ideas and other plans with this...The problem was that the metal molybdenum didn't melt and separate from the
Al2O3, but it mixed perfectly with the ruby melt, so the melt is very ugly, somewhere I should have pictures, I'll try to look at them, so you have an
idea of what it looked like. I thought of using a centrifuge during the reaction, another idea is to use KAl(MoO4)2, instead of Al2(MoO4)3, to
insulate the crucible well so that it cools very slowly and the molybdenum separates from the oxide. I also wish to cover the cup with a lid with a
small opening, so that the considerable part of MoO3, formed by the thermal decomposition of the aluminium molybdate not leave reaction mixture early,
that might help... Otherwise, MoO3 is a great mineralizer to make rubies and corundum in general. You have an idea too, any idea is welcome...
|
MoO3 has an insane melting temperature. Starting with Al2O3, no chance of melting! Can you just use MoO3, and Al? I would put the mix over hot coals
and have it heat up too 1000c, the whole mixture before igniting… you will need a sting container however.
Could you add 10-30 percent Be for higher heat?! |
Al alone with MoO3 leads to rapid vaporization of MoO3 and the reaction is a slow explosion, explosive combustion. But I'll give it a try and add just
a tiny amount of Al2O3! |
Al203 is dead weight. I would at potassium nitrate or magnesium sulfate instead.
|
|
|
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
Posts: 361
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: The dreaming alchemist
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by MineMan | | Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | | Quote: Originally posted by MineMan | | Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | What do you use the ruby melt for?[/rquote]
I wanted to make a ruby melt with the hope that in some parts there would be nice little rubies, preferably crystalline I collect gemstones and minerals, so for this reason. It was my very first experiment
with this reaction and I have a lot of ideas and other plans with this...The problem was that the metal molybdenum didn't melt and separate from the
Al2O3, but it mixed perfectly with the ruby melt, so the melt is very ugly, somewhere I should have pictures, I'll try to look at them, so you have an
idea of what it looked like. I thought of using a centrifuge during the reaction, another idea is to use KAl(MoO4)2, instead of Al2(MoO4)3, to
insulate the crucible well so that it cools very slowly and the molybdenum separates from the oxide. I also wish to cover the cup with a lid with a
small opening, so that the considerable part of MoO3, formed by the thermal decomposition of the aluminium molybdate not leave reaction mixture early,
that might help... Otherwise, MoO3 is a great mineralizer to make rubies and corundum in general. You have an idea too, any idea is welcome...
|
MoO3 has an insane melting temperature. Starting with Al2O3, no chance of melting! Can you just use MoO3, and Al? I would put the mix over hot coals
and have it heat up too 1000c, the whole mixture before igniting… you will need a sting container however.
Could you add 10-30 percent Be for higher heat?! |
Al alone with MoO3 leads to rapid vaporization of MoO3 and the reaction is a slow explosion, explosive combustion. But I'll give it a try and add just
a tiny amount of Al2O3! |
Al203 is dead weight. I would at potassium nitrate or magnesium sulfate instead. |
KNO3 and especially some sulphates are said to reacts explosively with Al. KNO3 react explosively with aluminium only sometimes. I'd be more inclined
to go with K2CrO4, or K2Cr2O7. KNO3 forms nitrogen gas and pottasium aluminate as well as aluminium(iii) oxide when reacted with aluminium. That
nitrogen gas can sometimes cause an explosion...
|
|
|
Admagistr
Hazard to Others
Posts: 361
Registered: 4-11-2021
Location: Central Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: The dreaming alchemist
|
|
6KNO3+10Al=6KAlO2+2Al2O3+3N2
|
|
|
MineMan
International Hazard
Posts: 1004
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | | Quote: Originally posted by MineMan | | Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | | Quote: Originally posted by MineMan | | Quote: Originally posted by Admagistr | What do you use the ruby melt for?[/rquote]
I wanted to make a ruby melt with the hope that in some parts there would be nice little rubies, preferably crystalline I collect gemstones and minerals, so for this reason. It was my very first experiment
with this reaction and I have a lot of ideas and other plans with this...The problem was that the metal molybdenum didn't melt and separate from the
Al2O3, but it mixed perfectly with the ruby melt, so the melt is very ugly, somewhere I should have pictures, I'll try to look at them, so you have an
idea of what it looked like. I thought of using a centrifuge during the reaction, another idea is to use KAl(MoO4)2, instead of Al2(MoO4)3, to
insulate the crucible well so that it cools very slowly and the molybdenum separates from the oxide. I also wish to cover the cup with a lid with a
small opening, so that the considerable part of MoO3, formed by the thermal decomposition of the aluminium molybdate not leave reaction mixture early,
that might help... Otherwise, MoO3 is a great mineralizer to make rubies and corundum in general. You have an idea too, any idea is welcome...
|
MoO3 has an insane melting temperature. Starting with Al2O3, no chance of melting! Can you just use MoO3, and Al? I would put the mix over hot coals
and have it heat up too 1000c, the whole mixture before igniting… you will need a sting container however.
Could you add 10-30 percent Be for higher heat?! |
Al alone with MoO3 leads to rapid vaporization of MoO3 and the reaction is a slow explosion, explosive combustion. But I'll give it a try and add just
a tiny amount of Al2O3! |
Al203 is dead weight. I would at potassium nitrate or magnesium sulfate instead. |
KNO3 and especially some sulphates are said to reacts explosively with Al. KNO3 react explosively with aluminium only sometimes. I'd be more inclined
to go with K2CrO4, or K2Cr2O7. KNO3 forms nitrogen gas and pottasium aluminate as well as aluminium(iii) oxide when reacted with aluminium. That
nitrogen gas can sometimes cause an explosion...
|
Explosive would not be the right term. You should control the speed based on particle size. Post 100um al. No explosion.
|
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
