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Nitrox2
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Most utility packed chemistry dream kit for $50-$150
I'd like to do a little chemistry experiments on the side, tinker with things, and run small scale experiments.
What would be the ideal combination of items for this price range?
I'm shopping of Amazon, and I'm trying to piece something together
I'm thinking 6mm O.D. flint glass tubing would make the list, because it is workable with an alcohol lamp, and is the right size for inserting in to
stoppers. Only problem is, I have it in my mind, that the black rubber stoppers don't seal particularly well to test tubes unless the thumb is kept
over them.
How could something like the design in the picture be constructed? It would need to use the white rubber stoppers and appropriately sized test tubes,
where can I find them? Also, could a hollow punch, the type used with a hammer, be used to punch out a 6mm hole for the glass tubing?
If I could make one of these devices, that would be a simple still!
Not sure what to do about hot plate stirrer, I've seen the solder pots, and am wondering if they will work with sand, or would that overheat the
solder pot?
What other equipment would provide a good general setup with utility, or experiments in mind?
Something like:
1) Scale
2) hotplate
3) thermometer
4) syringe or graduated cylinder
5)?
6)?
7)?
[Edited on 14-6-2025 by Nitrox2]
[Edited on 14-6-2025 by Nitrox2]
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j_sum1
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I recommend going for a ground glass set. Good rubber stoppers aren't that cheap anyway and they do an inferior job.
Get a cheap Chinese distillation kit and add to it as things break or as you need something new.
That gives you something versitile and that will grow with your hobby.
And don't forget beakers. I reckon I use beakers about five times as often as I use the more sophisticated glass. Most of my beakers are coffee
plungers from thrift shops and department stores.
At some point you will need something purpose made for heating. Stop-gap measures tend to be unreliable and limiting. You only need to thermal stress
flasks in a flame a couple of times before you realise it is a bad idea. I got a mantle first and hotplate later. I would reverse that if I was
starting over.
A jeweller's scale is essential. 500g at 0.01g precision can be got for under 20 bucks. Graduated cylinders are also useful, but you can go without if
you have a good scale.
You need a thermometer. K type thermocouple in a sealed glass tube is perfect. And cheap.
Collect some cheap kitchenware to get you started. Spoons, scoops, scrapers, stirrers, pestle and mortar, heat mats, pyrex dishes, funnels that kind
of thing. Replace them with more expensive labware when you need to (or never).
Get some filter paper. Coffee filters, cotton balls and paper towels are fine as far as they go. But eventually you will want something better.
Figure outhow you will hold stuff. My glassware rack is made from nickel-plated drawer handles. I also have a retort stand. DIY options abound. You
will probably need to invest in good boss heads and clamps.
In the medium term you will want a regulated power supply and/or vacuum pump.
And think about storage. A lot of times jam jars will suffice for chems. Until they don't. Cupboards, bins etc... depends on your space available.
That's it off The top of my head. Look at the tour my lab thread for other ideas. (And post yours when it is up and running.)
[Edited on 15-6-2025 by j_sum1]
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Nitrox2
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Would I need to add a Claisen adapter to this to prevent contamination from bumping?
[Edited on 15-6-2025 by Nitrox2]
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Nitrox2
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Hands down, I need to order set 10 bu from eisco and quit it, get back to math.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqxbSggZ-vI
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j_sum1
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Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2  | Would I need to add a Claisen adapter to this to prevent contamination from bumping?
[Edited on 15-6-2025 by Nitrox2] |
That's a short path designed to run under vacuum and collect several fractions without breaking the vacuum.
That's not a beginner setup. And does not need a claisen.
OTOH a short path condenser is very convenient even if it is not used as designed. For versatility however, nothing beats a 300mm liebig.
If you are distilling anything, add to your list an aquarium pump and some tubing.
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Nitrox2
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| Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1 | | Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2 | Would I need to add a Claisen adapter to this to prevent contamination from bumping?
[Edited on 15-6-2025 by Nitrox2] |
That's a short path designed to run under vacuum and collect several fractions without breaking the vacuum.
That's not a beginner setup. And does not need a claisen.
OTOH a short path condenser is very convenient even if it is not used as designed. For versatility however, nothing beats a 300mm liebig.
If you are distilling anything, add to your list an aquarium pump and some tubing. |
What are the alternative ways of using a short path? (as opposed to "as designed")
Is the micro short path apparatus (the one with the cow) hard to turn? Is there anything that makes it particularly not beginner friendly? The cow is
turned as soon as there is a spike in temperature, correct?
What happens if I want to drop a very small amount of liquid over the course of a large span of time? I've heard a class A 10mL burette is what I'd
want to use, but wasn't sure why??
Does set 10 bu from eisco bump into the receiver? What is your particular solution?
This video, from Lisa Nichols, says -- that a claisen must be used when doing short path distillation,or else bumping will contaminate the receiver.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBoFWSA94kU&t=403s
[Edited on 15-6-2025 by Nitrox2]
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Lionel Spanner
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If you're planning to distill substantial amounts of liquid, particularly water, I'd recommend a Dimroth condenser, especially if you're planning to
distill under vacuum.
Vacuum distillation can be painfully slow using a Liebig.
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j_sum1
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A short path, properly used, distils liquids that are not actually boiling. The process relies on evaporation at low ressure and moderate heating
without the vapour pressure exceeding pressure in the system.
I have never done it. But I have used my short path for quick distillations especially for substances that condense easily.
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Nitrox2
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Very interesting j-sum1, that distinction was not clear to me.
just when I thought I had it all down.
I recently saw something about glass wool being used to pack into the neck or what not to prevent contamination from bumping.
I'm not entirely clear on which substances will be okay under vacuum distillation (boiling) using a short path or the properly used method of using a
short path (evap). I have a feeling, my target substances may decompose under heat, but I think I've heard that they will be okay under vacuum
distillation (boiling). Suggestions?
Would a solder pot suffice if one used the proper method (evap) or -- it seems that stirring, would still be recommend, if not to prevent bumping, but
to aid in evaporation?
Evaporation still eludes me, how low of a temperature can it occur at? Does one just set the hotplate till a boil occurs and back off a little bit?
Does vacum need to be used, at all??
Thanks!!!
[Edited on 15-6-2025 by Nitrox2]
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Cathoderay
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You seem to have gone from tentative beginning chemistry to something rather specific and advanced in your quest.
Maybe you have something particular in mind. Would you care to specify what you are after?
A solder pot is intended for rather high temperature use, there are better ways to heat things for general chemistry. A solder pot might be useful for
distilling sulfuric acid but that is a very hazardous task.
You linked to a video by Lisa Nichols, I think doing distillations similar to wine would be a better start.
A more common procedure in chemistry is filtration rather than distillation.
There are several very good series of chemistry videos online that use a variety of amateur procedures. Take a look at NurdRage, Doug's Lab, Labcoats,
and Apoptosis.
Some even have a video or two on proper equipment.
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bnull
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| Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2 | | I'm not entirely clear on which substances will be okay under vacuum distillation (boiling) using a short path or the properly used method of using a
short path (evap). I have a feeling, my target substances may decompose under heat, but I think I've heard that they will be okay under vacuum
distillation (boiling). |
What substances are you talking about? The more information you provide, the more helpful the suggestions we can offer.
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bariumbromate
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WOULD RECCOMEND THI
would recommend this kit as the glass is very strong
https://www.vevor.com/lab-distillation-kit-c_11053/vevor-lab...
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Sulaiman
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just my point of view
I used a 100mm dia solder pot to make an oil bath for my NS10 distillation kit,
it worked well, but I rarely used my NS10 kit as I mostly used NS24.
I can recommend a solder pot if just for an oil bath,
but a suitably sized cooking pot on a cheap electric hotplate would be more versatile.
Stirring of reactions is extremely desirable, necessary even, but not cheap.
Most of the chemistry that I do does not require a distillation kit,
and the main reason that I use 'labware' is to prevent lab stuff contaminating food stuff.
(and it reminds me that I'm in 'chemistry mode", and, it feels more 'sciency')
Choosing the size of glassware has many implications,
larger glassware means more
. workspace
. storage space for glassware
. drying space for glassware
. energy used for heating etc.
. chemicals
. solvents
. storage space for chemicals
. storage space for solvents
. fire fighting equipment
. fun
I have NS10, which I find too small,
and NS24 which is usually a little too large for my needs, but China makes lots of it.
Buying glassware with ground glass joints is not cheap
but as my glassware collection grew
I wished that my early purchases did not involve rubber bungs etc.
small cheap digital scales are great.
my 100g x 1mg scales are so amazingly accurate that I rarely use my 220g x 0.1mg analytical balance
A cheap 10kg x 1g kitchen scale is also very useful.
What types, sizes and quantities of glassware best suit you will probably change as you develop different areas of interest.
Normally I would advise buying only what you actually have a plan to use,
but glassware from China seems to be made by type in batches,
so what is available today may not be available cheaply again for months or years even.
Unexpectedly, one of most difficult (expensive) lab glassware choices is storage bottles, jars etc.
reliable caps and seals vs. repurposed domestic glassware.
hdpe bottles are great for shipping, but not so good for quite a few common (in sciencemadness terms) chemicals.
Similarly, I bought a distillation kit quite cheaply,
....the glassware is not where the money goes.
stands, clamps, heating, cooling cost more,
so if considering a disiillation setup
. forget about reduced pressure or fine fractionation distillations until you have experience at atmospheric pressure.
. consider the TOTAL cost of the setup before piecemeal purchases.
. I like to distill some water as first use/test of new kit.
unless you intend to delve into quantitative analysis, you need no volumetric glassware - if you have suitable weighing scales.
[Edited on 16-6-2025 by Sulaiman]
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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Nitrox2
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When using such small glassware, How can I heat just the glass boiling flask, and not the rest of the apparatus? Can a solder pot be used?
Then, is stirring recommended? Looking at 2mmx2mm stir bars
is this guy meant to not be stirred? / Is it not supposed to use a liebig condenser?
Can an icepack, or icegel pack be used to cool the side arm / vacuum takeoff adapter, -- and even receiving flask?
https://www.amazon.com/Distilling-Flask-10ml-Socket-Borosili...
10mL pearflask with sidearm
[Edited on 6-17-25 by Nitrox2]
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j_sum1
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You seem to be looking for the cheapest thing that will do… uhhh… something, but you are not sure what.
Clarity in purchasing decisions always comes with clarity in purpose. Once you know what you want to do, the decision (or compromises) are a lot
easier.
Reading between the lines here, you are starting up. You have limited budget. You have little current knowledge but are keen to grow. You don't
really know what projects you might do in the future.
Here is my advice. Pick a project first. Then buy what you need for that project. Cheap and nasty if necessary.
Then, as you pursue new projects, buy what you need for that.
Replace anything that breaks or that you discover is sub-standard with good stuff.
This way, you have a set of gear that matches what you want to do and you accumulate over time.
That said, there are some hurdles -- big-ticket items that you probably need to save up for, or, at least keep your eyes open for a bargain.
Hotplate with stirrer – you can make do with a cheap kitchen hotplate, but only for so long.
Vacuum pump and filtering gear. Make do with gravity filtering in the mean time.
Regulated power supply. Yes batteries, transformers and PC power supplies will be ok, but eventually you will want to control your voltage or
current.
Distillation kit. This seems expensive but only because you need several different items before you can even start distilling. Look for a
cheap kit, but do not be tempted to get any weird combination flask/condenser arrangements. These will prove to be false economy because you will
need to replace them fairly soon. I will include side-arm flasks in that description. Get a condenser that you can use either for distilling or for
reflux. That means something detachable that can be used vertically so the condensate drips back onto the flask, or fitted at 105° so the condensate
can be collected.
Finally, do not overlook the so-called little items you will invariably need. Stands, funnels, filter paper, spoons, stirrers, scoops, containers,
paper towels, heat mats, test tubes and racks, beakers, thermometers, scales, all those kinds of things.
These add up very quickly. The good news is that most of the time you can pick up something suitable from the supermarket that will last you at least
for a while.
Ok, this really is finally.
Watch a bunch of good youtubers (plus chemplayer on bitchute.) You will see what is possible with comparatively little gear, pick up project ideas,
and see good practice that you can emulate. There is a thread entitled "chemistry diamonds on youtube" that has dozens of links.
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Nitrox2
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX14ly_2Qjc&list=OLAK5uy...
[Edited on 6-17-25 by Nitrox2]
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Texium
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Hello again, Yttrium2
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Nitrox2
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I just read that hand operated vacuum pumps (harbor freight) can be used for vacuum distillations when doing distillations with micro sized glassware
(14/20 or less).
I had thinking contrary to this
Any further suggestions?
[Edited on 6-17-25 by Nitrox2]
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Cathoderay
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One thing to know is that there are different levels of vacuum needed for different things.
For filtering you do not need (or want) a high level of vacuum. For vacuum distilling a stronger vacuum is usually used.
A simple thing to use for a limited amount of filtering is an aspirator pump. It is powered by a flow of water (sink). It is reliable because there
are no moving parts. There are metal ones and some made of plastic.
https://www.amazon.com/Bel-Art-Aspirator-Polyethylene-Discon...
For set ups out of doors, some people have used battery powered water pumps running the aspirator pump and re-using the water (closed loop).
I see some small AC powered vacuum pumps for sale for only a little more money but I have no experience with them. A more usual vacuum pump (more like
those for distilling) cost well over $100.
Most online videos show making a chemical from others (synthesis), another type of chemistry is identifying the make up of a substance (analysis),
still another would be chemical demonstrations (education). The type of chemistry you are interested in could effect the volumes of the vessels you
would want to use. Synthesis or demonstrations use bigger volumes than analysis typically.
In the videos I mentioned from several sources there are examples of all three of those types of chemistry.
I would stay away from the videos showing the making of explosives or drugs that would not be a good start.
[Edited on 6/17/2025 by Cathoderay]
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Nitrox2
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I wrote to Gemini: "what can I practice fractional distillation on, is practice the word, -- I want to use a micro short path apparatus for separating
chemical compounds. What could I experiment on? I've heard of cinnamon to get some sort of cinnamon alcohol, or something, -- but wasn't sure if that
was the same thing. Also, how could a steam distillation apparatus be used to collect essential oil with multiple fractions that can then be fed into
the micro distillation apparatus to separate and purify -- the fractions..."
Gemini wrote:
"Let's break down your questions about fractional distillation and essential oil extraction.
First, regarding your wording, "practice" is perfectly fine. You can "practice fractional distillation" or "experiment with fractional distillation."
Both are clear and correct.
Now, let's get into the specifics:
What can you practice fractional distillation on with a micro short path apparatus?
A micro short path distillation apparatus is designed for separating smaller quantities of compounds with relatively close boiling points, especially
those that are heat-sensitive or high-boiling. Here are some ideas for what you could experiment on:
Essential Oils: This is a fantastic application. Essential oils are complex mixtures of various terpenes, terpenoids, and other aromatic compounds,
all with different boiling points.
Fractionating a pre-existing essential oil: You could take a commercially available essential oil (like lavender, peppermint, or orange) and try to
separate it into its main components. This would be a great way to learn the ropes of fractional distillation.
"Cinnamon alcohol" or Cinnamon Essential Oil: You're on the right track! What people sometimes refer to as "cinnamon alcohol" is likely referring to
extracting compounds from cinnamon that are soluble in alcohol, or perhaps distilling essential oil from cinnamon, which then might contain
cinnamaldehyde and other compounds.
Cinnamon Essential Oil Distillation: You can certainly extract cinnamon essential oil via steam distillation (more on that below). This crude
essential oil would then be an excellent candidate for fractional distillation using your micro short path apparatus to separate components like
cinnamaldehyde (the primary compound responsible for cinnamon's flavor and aroma), eugenol, etc., which have different boiling points. This would be a
perfect multi-step experiment.
Petroleum Ether/Naphtha: These are mixtures of hydrocarbons with different boiling points. You could attempt to separate them into narrower boiling
point ranges.
Alcohol Mixtures: If you have a mixture of different alcohols (e.g., ethanol and isopropanol), you could try to separate them. This is a classic lab
exercise.
Used Solvents: If you have solvents that are slightly contaminated with other less volatile compounds, you could attempt to purify them through
distillation. (Always be mindful of safety and dispose of waste properly).
Important Considerations for Micro Short Path Distillation:
Boiling Point Differences: The greater the difference in boiling points between the components, the easier the separation will be. Fractional
distillation is for components with closer boiling points than simple distillation.
Vacuum: For many essential oil components or higher-boiling compounds, you'll need to operate under vacuum to lower their boiling points and prevent
thermal degradation. Your micro short path apparatus is designed for this.
Heating Control: Precise temperature control is crucial for good separation.
Small Scale: Be mindful of the small volumes you'll be working with.
How could a steam distillation apparatus be used to collect essential oil with multiple fractions that can then be fed into the micro distillation
apparatus to separate and purify these fractions?
This is an excellent two-step process that utilizes both techniques effectively. Here's how you can do it:
Step 1: Steam Distillation for Crude Essential Oil Extraction
Apparatus Setup: You'll need a standard steam distillation setup. This typically includes:
Boiling Flask/Still Pot: For your plant material (e.g., cinnamon bark, lavender flowers, peppermint leaves) and water.
Heating Mantle/Hot Plate: To heat the still pot.
Steam Inlet (Optional but Recommended): If you have an external steam generator, you can directly inject steam into the plant material. Otherwise,
you'll be performing hydrodistillation (water and plant material boiled together).
Still Head/Claisen Adapter: Connects the still pot to the condenser.
Condenser (Liebig or Graham): To cool the steam/vapor back into liquid.
Receiving Flask/Separator: Often a Florentine flask or a simple separating funnel where the essential oil and water (hydrosol) will collect and
separate.
Process:
Place your plant material in the still pot.
Add enough water to cover the plant material (for hydrodistillation) or set up your external steam generator.
Heat the still pot. Steam will pass through the plant material, volatilizing the essential oils.
The steam and essential oil vapors will travel into the condenser, where they will cool and condense back into liquid.
The condensed liquid (a mixture of essential oil and water, known as hydrosol) will flow into your receiving flask.
Collecting "Fractions" during Steam Distillation (Conceptual):
While steam distillation itself primarily collects the total essential oil, you could conceptually collect "fractions" by changing your receiving
flask at different time intervals during the distillation.
Early Fractions: Might contain more of the lower-boiling, more volatile compounds.
Later Fractions: Might contain more of the higher-boiling, less volatile compounds.
Separation: Since essential oils are generally immiscible with water and less dense, they will float on top of the hydrosol layer in your receiver.
You can then use a separating funnel to decant the essential oil layer from the hydrosol. This will give you your "crude" essential oil fractions.
Step 2: Fractional Distillation of Crude Essential Oil Fractions using Micro Short Path
Preparation:
Take the separated essential oil "fractions" (or even the entire crude essential oil) obtained from the steam distillation.
Ensure they are as water-free as possible. You might need to dry them over a small amount of an anhydrous drying agent (like anhydrous sodium sulfate)
if there's residual water, then filter.
Micro Short Path Setup: Set up your micro short path distillation apparatus. This typically includes:
Distilling Flask: A small flask for your essential oil sample.
Heating Mantle/Oil Bath: For precise heating.
Short Path Head: Designed for minimal vapor path length.
Condenser: Integrated into the head, often water-cooled.
Receiving Flasks: Multiple small flasks or vials to collect different fractions as they distill.
Vacuum Pump: Crucial for achieving lower boiling points and preventing degradation.
Vacuum Gauge: To monitor the vacuum level.
Process:
Add your crude essential oil fraction to the distilling flask.
Apply vacuum.
Begin heating the distilling flask slowly and carefully.
Fraction Collection: As the temperature rises and different compounds boil and condense at their respective boiling points (under vacuum), collect
them in separate receiving flasks.
Monitor the temperature closely. When the temperature stabilizes at a certain point, a particular compound or group of compounds is distilling.
Switch receiving flasks when the temperature starts to rise again, indicating a new component is beginning to distill.
Continue until all desired fractions have been collected or the remaining material is too high-boiling or degraded.
Example with Cinnamon:
Steam Distillation of Cinnamon Bark: You would steam distill ground cinnamon bark. The collected essential oil will be rich in cinnamaldehyde, but
also contain other compounds like eugenol, beta-caryophyllene, and various terpenes.
Fractional Distillation of Cinnamon Essential Oil: You then take this crude cinnamon essential oil and feed it into your micro short path apparatus.
You might first collect a fraction of lower-boiling terpenes.
Then, as the temperature increases (under vacuum), you would collect the main cinnamaldehyde fraction.
Following that, you might get a fraction rich in eugenol or other higher-boiling components.
This multi-step approach allows you to first extract the essential oil in a relatively crude form and then meticulously separate and purify its
individual components, making it an excellent learning experience for both distillation techniques! Remember safety first and research the boiling
points of the compounds you expect to find in your chosen essential oil to guide your fractional distillation."
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Nitrox2
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bnull
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I recommend that, instead of consulting Gemini and other AI, you try books. Take a look at our Library. There is a book on semimicro and micro scale experiments, the books by Vogel and by Fieser, material much more reliable than whatever it
is that AI can spout on demand.
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Nitrox2
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I have this block that is 7 1/4" x 15 11/16"
Not sure if I displayed that correctly. It is one tick below 15 3/4"
7.25"x15.6875"?
My 78 cent walmart rod is 36" long x 3/8" diameter.
I'm looking for suggestions on how I should divide up this block to make the best lab stands, I'm guessing I should only need 2 stands?
Would several little stands with 12" rods be nicer than 1 or 2 -- about 8"ish stands, with 300mm rods???
Is this a forstner bit that drills a flat bottom hole into the wood? Should I glue it in place?
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Cathoderay
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Ha-ha! I was wondering who the heck Gemini was.
Seriously, why would you go to AI when you have people on this forum that could help you with your questions.
Chemistry is a huge field. It would take someone a couple of lifetimes to explore it all.
There are probably a million inorganic compounds possible and at least ten times that many organic compounds. It would make sense to narrow things
down a bit.
I did recommend you view some of those series of videos showing various chemical processes and noticing the equipment used.
Are you interested in the science of chemistry itself (exploring, curiosity) or are you out to obtain something?
You know smaller glassware isn't necessarily cheaper. Somewhat larger sizes may cost less because more of that size are sold.
I second the idea of you doing more research on what could be done on a more or less amateur chemist basis. In the spirit of starting small (cost wise
and with some basics procedure) you might download "The Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments" by Brent.
Yes it is targeted more for pre-teens, but it does show some simple homemade equipment and use easy to obtain chemicals. There is plenty of more
advance books in the library and many people on this forum that do very advanced chemistry. Also it is easy to see that many here are into there own
specialties and may push you in that direction.
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Cathoderay
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| Quote: Originally posted by Nitrox2 | I have this block that is 7 1/4" x 15 11/16"
Not sure if I displayed that correctly. It is one tick below 15 3/4"
7.25"x15.6875"?
My 78 cent walmart rod is 36" long x 3/8" diameter.
I'm looking for suggestions on how I should divide up this block to make the best lab stands, I'm guessing I should only need 2 stands?
Would several little stands with 12" rods be nicer than 1 or 2 -- about 8"ish stands, with 300mm rods???
Is this a forstner bit that drills a flat bottom hole into the wood? Should I glue it in place? |
I don't think that slab of wood would be enough for two bases. You don't want the stand to fall over so most have bases made of metal for weight. The
smallest base (metal) I have is 5 X 7 with the 18 inch rod. The taller the rod the bigger the base should be. The lighter the base material the larger
it should be. The rods on my stands are between 18 and 24 inches tall. The rods should be long enough so that a hotplate for instance can be put under
a flask. The bigger base (solid aluminum) is 10 X 8 inch. Three eighths is a good diameter for the rod. The rod should be threaded and if the base is
solid the base threaded. Some bases are thick steel sheet metal and use nuts above and below the sheet base. Do you know someone that can weld a steel
rod to a steel base? I suppose you could use a wood base and put a chunk of steel on it for stability. Now I do use flasks up to 1000 ml.
You might want to think about ventilation, either do chemical processes outside or consider making a fume hood. There is a thread about fume hood on
this forum. The stands should fit into the fume hood.
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