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diddi
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I don't know that I would be proud if spilling a lot of corrosive shit on myself 
Beginning construction of periodic table display
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Praxichys
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Agreed. Byko3y, you wouldn't break your fingers in a cake mixer to make yourself look like a good chef, would you?
If you want bragging rights, join your local military. Chemistry is not trying to kill you; you're just being reckless. Spilling acid on
yourself is neither heroic nor reinforces your ability to be a chemist.
When you eventually hurt yourself badly, it will make all of us look bad, and potentially put a ban on even more valuable OTC chemicals.
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byko3y
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I knew good teachers that knew nothing real, I knew bad teachers that knew nothing real. I knew bad teachers that knew something, I know really few
teachers that know and can do real world things, and all of them don't just teach people. Most of times they are chiefs or other kind of leader.
You can't teach people anything - but you can train them to perform some actions without their conscious effort involved. A human can learn, but he
can't be tought. Corrupt military-like schools all over the goddamn world made people believe they can actually be tought beyond their will.
So, basically, a human needs to be given with some instruments or some hints about what to obtain or what to perform, and maybe some safety
precautions to learn the science. Hints, not the instructions.
If you look at most of the books written for teaching, you will see that most of them are about mindless repeating, despite the fact they try to
explain mechanisms (most of times author himself doesn't understand the mechanism  ).
As you can see, someone like Shulgin can be a good teacher and he really is. And I'm pretty sure that most of skilled chemist capable of basic social
interaction are able to help people in their learning.
But often people claim that a narrowed specialist barely capable of learning some other science branch himself is a skilled chemist. And often people
claim a clown is a skilled teacher. Yes, his lessons are funny. And completely useless. Just like the knowledge of a narrowed chemist is almost
useless for a regular person. Just like thousands of graduate students barely capable of repeating the stuff they used to know few years ago wasted
few years of their lifes for nothing.
You will forget a mistake that made you fail your exams, but you will never forget a mistake that made you loose your finger. This is a basic rule of
learning: if you don't experience strong emotions - you don't learn. You will forget everything in few month, and the whole time spent on "learning"
will be completely wasted.
It's not about losing fingers - it's about hurting yourself in case of mistake. And if you don't make mistakes - you don't do nothing. Learning is all
about making mistakes.
I can remember some thing I learned when I was 8 years old, and I can barely remember the things I was tought at school and college. Recently I was
reading my old exercise book and going like "is it mine? Was I learning all this stuff?", despite the fact I can understand the things that are
written there.
Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys  | | When you eventually hurt yourself badly, it will make all of us look bad, and potentially put a ban on even more valuable OTC chemicals.
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Bans are not about your safety, but about your freedom.
I can give you a nice example. Picric acid in small amounts is a completely safe chemical within a laboratory. Even it's salts can barely detonate,
some iron of lead salt is reaquired. So why the hell would you declare it to be a dangerous chemical? You can't even detonate a sodium salt with a
hammer!
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aga
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The ability to Teach is a skill, and requires a lot of knowledge regarding Teaching.
It is a rare individual that can Teach, and also has a deep knowledge and Passion for their chosen subject.
I for one cannot Teach : i lack empathy and Understanding of others.
If i say something once, why do they not Get It already ?
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j_sum1
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@byko3y
This is the bit where you show that you really have little understanding of teaching -- or learning for that matter.
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diddi
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some one could show me how to paint but I will never have "the gift" of painting and my art would be awful.
there are people with "the gift" of teaching and others just cant. some will admit they "wouldn't make a teacher's bootlace" and others will persist
in claiming they can teach others despite a lack of interest or success.
I am a shit painter. so there! but, even tho I have not been classroom teaching for many years, I am still being sought to tutor my ex-student's
children.
Beginning construction of periodic table display
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byko3y
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j_sum1, what do you mean under term "teaching"? What should a person do which can be called "teaching"?
They actually can. But it's not teaching, but training. You force people to do things, and incedentally they can train their muscles or brains. The
trained person would need a supervisor to continue performing the tasks he is trained to do. But he will not be able to continuously perform them
without a supervisor, until he really had a passios to learn, and in this case he needs no "teacher".
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j_sum1
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A skilled teacher will be aware of different learning styles, able to recognise them, able to adjust any activity to accommodate these, able to
undertake informal assessment (which students may not even be aware of) to determine what students know and again adjust accordingly. Teachers have a
range of communication strategies. They are trained in the realm of risk assessment and management. They are professionally trained to deal with the
full spectrum of students' needs of which the acquisition of knowledge and skills are but two. They design and modify curriculum documentation and
practice to align with the ever-changing requirements of political and governing bodies. They report extensively and in detail to the multitude of
stakeholders in the education process. etc. etc. There is a lot more to it than just spouting forth information. That might get you by for a while
and even earn a few quick bucks. But in any endeavour that is profitable and sustainable for any length of time, you are going to want to address
some of the other matters. And ultimately, teaching is a calling more than merely a vocation. It actually requires a certain kind of person to do it
well and enjoy it. If you have it, then kudos to you. But it is unwise to assume that you can do this gig just because you understand the material.
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byko3y
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I know how the teachers are trained. They are trained to obey the constraints they are given and to make students behave like they care and know
something, giving a false motivation to do things they don't want to do. Most students have no idea about what they really want to learn, because they
mostly had no choice nor practice of making decision.
The job of the teacher you mentioned can be called a job of a military officer: training the soldiers, adapting the methods for every group of
soldiers, etc. Yes, it's really difficult to make the person obey beyond their will, but it's not a job of a true teacher.
Btw, right now I'm learning chemistry by myself (my college specialization was not chemistry), and for the 1st year student I show incredible results
considering I don't even had any chemist nearby nor I had any chemical equipment, and also I have another full time job.
Was reading this one in my native language, finally found the original english book title, written by a genius John Taylor Gatto "An Underground
History of American Education"
[Edited on 5-5-2015 by byko3y]
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j_sum1
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sigh.
Again you have demonstrated that you know little of teaching and have presumed to know what motivates us. I am not going to labour the point. Just to
say you don't really get it.
Besides, I am off on a school camp for three days. Let's just say that the picture you have described does not remotely resmble what I will be doing
over the next 72 hours.
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byko3y
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You tel me that I wrong, though you refuse to tell me exactly where I'm wrong. I see no contradictions between your previuos post and my previuos one,
and all you said there is just a common things like "we try to teach people, to use different methods for that, to adapt, to communicate, to make
people happier, to give people things they need".
In fact, when I try to ask teachers to explain what they think is their job, it ends with something like "I am not going to labour the point. Just to
say you don't really get it". Give it up, I just can't understand, because I can't understand.
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Oscilllator
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Just thought I'd weigh in here:
I actually DO tutor people in chemistry. I am currently only tutoring one person in their final year of high school, and at the moment we are covering
the molar heat of combustion of alcohols. I actually quite enjoy teaching people chemistry, and try to bring back the topics to everyday life and tell
stories about some of the experiments I have done so as to try and make the subject as interesting as possible to somebody who isn't hugely interested
in the subject.
On the topic of teaching in general though, I consider myself to be fairly good at it. I often help people in classes, and several times people have
commented that I am pretty good teaching in general. However it is very difficult to obtain genuine feedback from the people I actually tutor, as of
course most people feel socially obligated to say "Oh yes thank you so much etc etc".
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diddi
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so byko3y, what do you do when the student just does not get what you are saying?
Beginning construction of periodic table display
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byko3y
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I donno how to tell you, but... nobody in high school cares about molar heat of combustion, everyone will forget it in 1-2 years, and I'm pretty sure
that the only man who can remember this stuff of all my classmates is me (we were also tought the heat of combustion).
They main problem I try to emphasize is: when someone is not interested in subject, then either he knows nothing about it and your jobs is to show
them the subject, or they just don't care and as a teacher you should just leave them - this is the most correct thing to do, and it's impossible
within a regular school, as you might already know.
I've spent 15 years of my life for useless things I try to describe here, and only now I found my passion. Once again: I was tought chemistry in high
schlool and college by 3 different teachers, and found it all boring.
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byko3y
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diddi, first and foremost - I don't try to teach people that don't want to learn. That simple. The history shows us that forcing people to do things
beyond their will is a good way to make them hate the work they do. Until you just refuse to see the facts and prefer to use pedagogical manuals as
the only source of information.
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